ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

01. The Healing Practice That Changed Everything for Us | Alicia Acosta & Cindy Biggs

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What happens when family wounds ripple through generations, shaping not only our personal lives but entire cultural dynamics? In this powerful episode, John Acosta, Cindy Biggs, and Alicia Acosta dive deep into the transformative practice of Family Constellations, reflecting on their personal healing journeys across continents—from Romania’s Carpathian Mountains to the heart of the United States. Cindy shares her life-changing introduction to this modality during a pivotal moment in Romania, while Alicia and John recount their profound first encounters with Constellation work. Together, they explore how generational trauma manifests in family systems, education, and society, offering insights into breaking cycles and finding collective healing.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Zulu One Podcast. Join my mom, sister and me as we share how family constellations and meditation transformed our lives. We discuss trauma, the importance of self-healing and announce our November 17th workshop in Chicago.

Speaker 2:

Tune in for insights on personal growth and To close your eyes, uncross your arms and legs and ground your body where you are Now. We're going to take three deep breaths. Take one deep breath for you, in through your nose and out through your mouth. Now one for your mother, in and out, now one for your father. Inhale and exhale. Inhale Now. See your mother behind your left shoulder, close to your heart, supporting you, even if you do not know your mother or you had a difficult relationship with her.

Speaker 2:

Be in gratitude to her for bringing you into this world. Feel her presence Now. See your father behind your right shoulder, Supporting you. Feel his presence Now. See your mother's parents behind him and your great-grandparents behind them now. See all your ancestors standing behind you. Invite all the excluded ones to join them see the warm glow to join them. See the warm glow cascading life force, experience, intuition and ancient knowledge coming towards you. Feel their presence, supporting you moving forward. Sit in that feeling for a moment. Now, when you're ready, come back to the space.

Speaker 1:

How was that one? Oh wow, oh wow.

Speaker 4:

What kept coming to my mind is I can see my mom in the screen and my dad. I know exactly what he's doing at your house, right?

Speaker 1:

now yes.

Speaker 4:

Sitting on the couch.

Speaker 1:

Yep Watching TV. Yes, yes, what came out for your mom.

Speaker 5:

Oh, I just really felt both of them here. I just felt a really, really strong connection. You know the fact that both of my parents are deceased. It touches me in a very deep level, and what came up is how very proud they both are of the work that you are doing to help heal yourselves first and foremost, and then all of your loved ones, and then a larger community. It's really beautiful, Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Wow, I'm going to get emotional. Jeez, we're going to just start with everybody crying Golly man.

Speaker 2:

Jeez.

Speaker 1:

That's what this is all about, right? So let's everybody start crying. That's great. You're not crying. I'm not crying, you're not.

Speaker 5:

I'm not crying, you're crying so what came up for you?

Speaker 1:

um, so what came up for me was the first, first consolation that we did which is kind of a mirror of what we're doing right now, us three on this conversation. You know, having this continue like what the 8, 16, 18, 20 years later?

Speaker 1:

um and dad sitting on the couch which, and he's supporting in his own way, which- is really cool it's like, it's like full circle and and for the audience to to know and this is this is very personal to me and I know you had a different experience, mom and alicia on your side you had a different experience as well, but my first constellation was you at the front, um, alicia and I behind you, uh, and we were in this emergency dynamic and dad kind of on the on the outside just looking in, trying to like, find a way and to find that out right. So it's a lot less aggressive than that, um, and it's in a new, complete way, in a different, almost like a different rung of the ladder towards healing, which is really cool. That you know, recently dad's done a constellation and that was just, you know, really interesting and really powerful and just how much that's affected my life and my kids' lives and I would imagine your guys' lives as well how much he's done healing as well. So, yeah, this is it's really cool. This is what I'm calling the home team. Excuse me, what I'm calling the home team I'm stealing this from another podcast that I really like is we're the foundational members of Zulu One, this movement that started in 2006,.

Speaker 1:

Mom, in Romania 2007? Actually 2000,.

Speaker 5:

It was 19 years ago.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so 2007, right, yeah, when we were introduced to this work of family constellations. Right, and so tell me, from your perspective, if you could talk about it a little bit, about how you came to this incredible modality.

Speaker 5:

you've alluded to the fact that your father, who is staying with you right now. For a brief period, we were married for 20 years and after the breakup of, after our divorce, I joined the Foreign Service. I was a Foreign Service officer for the US government.

Speaker 5:

Lots of people don't know what that means but it's simply part of a team of people within US governments of Commerce, helping US manufacturers find clients internationally and helping international assigned to live in Romania. That was my second assignment. After the divorce, the three of us moved to Monterey, Mexico, and then I was assigned to the US Embassy in Romania. In Romania, and you had joined the Air Force at that point and were no longer living with us and Alicia was taking a gap year before she started university, working at the US Embassy, and we had all kind of approached the divorce in different ways and I for one did not handle it well. And we were walking down the street, Alicia and I. Alicia and I were walking down the street and she stopped and turned around and looked at me and she had big tears coming down her face and she said that she was ready to go to counseling.

Speaker 4:

Which I do not remember that moment at all oh wow. So I don't know if she made it up or if it really happened.

Speaker 5:

Well, I contacted the embassy and they actually provided me with a wonderful therapist who started working with Alicia.

Speaker 4:

And I thought well, deanna.

Speaker 5:

Deanna, I should have told you. Oh God, yeah. So I thought, well, if Alicia can do this, I'm going to do it too. So I started also going to see a therapist and I was a couple months in and I had started dating a wonderful, wonderful man and he came to Romania to visit me. We'd been dating for three years and so he came to Romania to visit me and then my parents came to spend Christmas with me because the two of you were in Venezuela visiting your father and he called me. He was in Zambia visiting his daughter, and he called me. His daughter was working on a refugee camp as a volunteer, and he called me and he was sitting right next to his daughter and we were just talking and I said, before I hung up, I love you. And he kind of hesitated because his daughter was right there. He was a little bit embarrassed, but thankfully he said I love you too, and an hour and a half later he was dead.

Speaker 5:

I got a phone call. He had been killed in a head-on collision and my world stopped. Everything on me hurt, my hair hurt, everything hurt. I didn't know what to do, so I called my therapist. Luckily, my parents were with me.

Speaker 5:

I called my therapist and told him what had happened and he immediately told me to come and I went there and we started working through the grief process and he said you know, in July there's going to be a gathering up in the Carpathian Mountains and with a group of people, and I think it would help you a lot and I was so distraught that anything if he had told me to set my hair on fire and run down the street naked, I would have done it because I was in so much pain.

Speaker 5:

So I had no idea what I was getting into. I packed my bag for 10 days, go up into the Carpathian Mountains, and it turns out that that was my introduction into Bert Hellinger's Family Constellation Therapy and of the people participating. There were 33 people participating. They had brought in a facilitator named Alberto, from Spain because they were founding the Romanian chapter of the Family Constellation Therapists and they were all. All of these people, it turns out, were therapists, with the exception of three of us. So that was my introduction and we did family constellations from morning. You know to the why Romanian psychologists wanted to bring constellations to the country.

Speaker 1:

Can you, can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker 5:

Ceausescu after. So Romania. Not to get too much in the weeds about Romanian history, but Romania was under Soviet control. When the Russians pulled out, ceausescu and his wife Elena imposed a kind of communism on Romania which made the Russians look a little a bit more preferable their form of communism as opposed to Ceausescu's. And he was upset because they had taken out a loan from the International Monetary Fund and the country didn't have the money to pay back the fund, to pay back the money that they had borrowed. And he was embarrassed. He was a very proud man.

Speaker 5:

He proceeded to turn Romania into an agricultural country, so he moved everybody in from the outskirts of Bucharest into Bucharest and turned off the electricity. They didn't want to buy energy from other countries, so they would turn off the electricity in all of the country. They were forced into labor, so they were out working in the fields picking strawberries, all for exports. So they were hungry, there wasn't enough food, they were cold and Ceausescu was trying to grow the Romanian population and so contraception was outlawed and women would be brought in and examined to see if they were pregnant several times during the year. So as a result, you have a population of people who are terrified of being sent to a concentration camp. They're hungry, they're cold and they're starved for connection. So you can only imagine what would happen with couples and families and the women would get pregnant. And if you've got starving children at home, another pregnancy could mean both parents and the existing children would perish. So, as a result, there were an awful lot of abortions performed and many, many, many women died.

Speaker 5:

And in fact, when Alberto Iturbe, the facilitator, the Spanish facilitator went around the circle when we were first meeting, he went around the circle and he asked people how many siblings do you have? And people would say I'm an only child. And he'd go around to the next person I'm an only child, I'm an only child. He caught on what was going on and he started saying how many times were your parents pregnant? And some of them, one woman in particular, said 33 times and she's an only child. Another woman said. Another participant said I remember my mother being pregnant two times a year and she again was an only child. So there was this need in Romania. There was just this desperate need to heal the wound on the psyche of Romania and it's just been amazing to watch how that country has advanced in terms of helping to heal the wound of their ancestors.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the way that I always describe Romania is that, and I got the chance to visit you a bunch of times when you were there and also go and do constellations, which will be a you know conversation down the line but I always describe Romania as a beautiful woman that was in an abusive relationship for 30 years.

Speaker 1:

You know, it's just like there's such wounds on the psyche of it and you know when we're talking about constellations and what this does and we haven't really talked about what a constellation is. So I think a simple description of it and if you're listening to the podcast you kind of know what this is right. It's a very obscure type of uh to deal with unresolved trauma and family systems basically, and as countries are, they're built by family systems, they're built by social systems and there's this idea that trauma is carried in the systemic or collective memory of a, of a culture, and obviously you, you could see that that was very present and palpable in the Romanian culture and I can't imagine how shocking that is at the beginning, but also kind of like a full circle of Vlad the Impaler being in Transylvania. Now it's Alberto the Healer in the Carpathian Mountains, like now it's, you know, alberto the healer in the Carpathian Mountains saying you know, I'm here to heal your soul.

Speaker 1:

You know, rather than it being this. You know, it's a kind of full circle thing. Rather than sucking energy out of people, it's like we're healing souls, right, and that's what this constellation work really does at the end of the day. So I think that it's a really such a beautiful story of out of so much pain can come so much, so much beauty.

Speaker 5:

Yes, and then the following year Alicia came with me and participated with the same group of people that had grown at that point. And then the next year you came and it got even bigger and honestly, that has to be one of the most beautiful memories that I will cherish forever is to see the two of you working addressing these issues. This generational trauma at such young ages and then to have taken to that so immediately and in such a big way and then to reach the point where we are right now is just such an incredible, incredible blessing for me. It's hard for me to articulate how proud it makes me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, I appreciate that yeah, thanks. So, Alicia, what was your first impression about mom coming back and saying, hey, I'm looking at this modality and this is a weird kind of thing? What was your first initial reaction about it?

Speaker 4:

So for me, I was going through a process of moving to the United States to go to college. I was going to go to Charleston College of Charleston and things didn't work out and I ended up going to Michigan. So I was like in a transitional period. I decided to stay longer in Romania to be with mom because, after you know, tom passed away, I didn't want to leave her alone. So I got a job at the embassy and mom would tell me about this and it would go through one ear and leave the other. Obviously I wasn't ready to hear and to fully understand how deep she went in her healing and how vulnerable she was. So when she invited me the following summer, she said hey, just come to the hotel, it's in the Carpathian Mountains.

Speaker 1:

You can hang out by the pool. You can hang out. I swear to God, there's no pool. There's no pool there. You can hang out by the pool. You can hang out by the pool.

Speaker 4:

You can, you know, just relax and enjoy the hotel. You can go hiking. And I was like sure that sounds great, so I get there and I really had zero interest in participating. Also, it was pretty expensive, so I did know that. So we get to the hotel and it was like bare minimum. Yeah, there was no pool, there was no TV, there was only like three channels.

Speaker 1:

And they're all Romanian.

Speaker 4:

Yes, they were. They're all Romanian. I couldn't go hiking because there were bears everywhere. Ursus. So, I couldn't go hiking by myself, so I basically, for the first day, just stayed in the hotel room watching TV, like that's all I did.

Speaker 1:

Watching Romanian TV like Romanian soap operas.

Speaker 4:

Yes, exactly. Well, a lot of them were Venezuelan and Colombian soap operas. Translated into Romanian no, no, no in Spanish.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, okay.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so Romanians are very skillful with their languages. A lot of them learn Spanish through soap operas. And a lot of them from Colombian and Venezuelan soap operas, so that was really neat.

Speaker 1:

There should be a global class on just learning languages through soap operas, Because so many of the people that we know have learned languages through soap operas. Right, mom? Yeah, so what was okay? So you're bored out of your mind in the hotel room.

Speaker 4:

And I mom comes like mom's, like yeah, you're going to be able to see me. I never saw her, only for lunch. And then I see all these people like super excited. And then that night she talked to Alberto and she said you know, when it's my turn to do a constellation, because when you're in a group constellation, they put everybody's name in a hat, um, and throughout the constellation they start picking out names and if your name gets called, then it's your turn to work on something that you are struggling with or something that you want to see, something that is very important for you at that moment. So she asked him if, when it's her turn, if I could be there. So I was like, ok, yeah, I'll do that, like I'll do anything, like I was bored out of my mind and we're going to be there for 10 days.

Speaker 4:

So you know I sit down in the circle and I'm like, okay, you know, this is really exciting. She starts to work on her constellation and the first thing I noticed was the person that was representing me. This is a lady that I've never seen in my life. I don't know any of the people in the circle. The only person I know is my mom and my therapist. My therapist, diana, was there, participating in the family constellation as well, and I started to see that she would do movements that I normally do while she was representing me. And then there was another gentleman that was representing you, and then I started to see the interaction between the two of us, the two representatives.

Speaker 1:

I remember this, yes.

Speaker 4:

And I would be like tickling you, like trying to get your attention all the time, like the representatives and I was sitting there and being like that's totally our relationship and I'm always looking for his attention, especially tickling, because you don't like when I tickle you.

Speaker 1:

Nope, I do not like that. No, no, no, I don't like when I tickle you because you get blue and nervous. Nope, I do not like that. Nope, nope, no, I don't like that.

Speaker 4:

So, when I was able to see the physical similarities. That's when I was like, oh wow, this is super powerful. And then, when I was able to represent someone, then I was able to feel the energy of whoever I was representing and I was like, oh wow, this is incredible. So, little by little, the more I participated and the more I saw, the more I was able to understand what Family Constellations was all about. And then the following year, when you did it, how did you feel? Now it's your turn to tell your story.

Speaker 1:

When you guys first told I don't remember where we were, but we were sitting at a table, I think, in Marshall. So my mom's side of the family's from Michigan and my dad's side of the family's from Venezuela, that's kind of our dynamic, right. And you guys live in Chicago currently and I live in South Florida.

Speaker 4:

So that's why sometimes you'll hear them say my name as Alicia, because that's my American name that I don't go by but that my brother and mom use all the time, and that's totally fine. Or sometimes you'll hear them say Alicia, which is the name that I go by because I'm majority surrounded by Spanish people.

Speaker 1:

So I think we were sitting in a round table and you guys started telling me. It was like this big, not a secret, but you guys didn't really want to tell me, like talk about it until you guys were both there. Okay, it was like you guys were both had to be there for telling me. And you guys started telling me and I was like you guys are in a cult. You guys have lost your mind. This is crazy voodoo. You know crazy stuff. This doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1:

How could somebody understand the representation of the energy of another person, of their internal dynamics, through because of unresolved trauma? I don't even know what unresolved trauma was, so I was like extorted, my skepticism was a thousand, right, right. I was like trying to figure it out. I'm like they and I was learning about like neural, neural linguistic programming nlp, I think it's called and I was like, oh well, they're doing elicitation or they're trying to figure out. Like you guys had filled out a questionnaire about the family and I was like trying to, very much in my head trying to figure out what, what it was, and I remember kind of that summer coming around and you're like, hey, you know same, you know we both felt for the same trick.

Speaker 1:

Be like, hey, you want to come to Romania and I have some friends in space like you can go hang out by the pool, you don't have to come and blah, blah. I'm like sure, and I was in, I was in Louisiana at the time. I was when I was stationed in Louisiana and I went there and I was in a band like still in the military 20, I was 26, I think 25 or 26 at the time, um, and just a punk right, a punk punk ass kid and um I, I remember coming in there and I was like just completely in culture shock because very similar. But I'm very curious. So I was like what are these people doing? And it's like I'm gonna figure out how they did the trick.

Speaker 1:

You know like how they, how they're, how they're scamming my mom basically and somebody picked me to represent, like so it's, this big ballroom with at that time was one of the biggest, one of the bigger ones. Right, it was like 55 psychologists and psychiatrists, romanian psychologists and psychiatrists. None of them spoke Spanish or English.

Speaker 1:

So it was you, you mom and myself, right, and Alberto and his two sons that speak Spanish. So we were, the constellation was translated from Spanish into Romanian and we were kind of, we were listening to all of it in Spanish, right, and somebody picked me to represent something, and it wasn't the dog.

Speaker 4:

I know the dog is the first thing, it was the crazy uncle.

Speaker 1:

It was the crazy. I didn't know. Was it the crazy uncle? The first one.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that you wanted to steal. He was mentally ill. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I was picked to do a very powerful or very intense representation and I was like I'm feeling things that doesn't belong to me and it's not a possession, right, it's not like you're not there, but you're kind of allowing your body to be a representation of somebody's internal story and I didn't realize.

Speaker 1:

I mean, all these years later is now I understand what that representation looks like and what it feels like, and that you're still obviously in your mind. You can still be like this isn't, this is wild what I'm feeling, but also be a, a very clear vessel to the representation of the internal dynamic of the family system. That does the currently the facilitators working on, and I was, I was hook, line and sinker, I was after that representation. I'm like this isn't um, so in the here and now, right, it's like it's, it's, it's visceral, it's a visceral representation and, um, I, I felt this thing and I'm like, okay, I now I have to figure out where it comes from. And this podcast, in many capacities, is the exploration of this phenomenon from a curious perspective and from a technical perspective.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, that's how I started.

Speaker 4:

Because it's so hard to explain when you're with this group of people that you basically don't know at the end of the constellation there's just such a huge bonding experience because it's a soul to soul connection. So imagine we did this. I did it for two years, Mom did it for three and you did it for one with the same people, for 10 hours a day for 10 days with the same 50 people. So at the end, like the love and the connection that we had was incredible. And to go outside of the Carpathian Mountains and explain that to someone, of course they were going to think we're cray-cray.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, exactly. And to find resonance with somebody that you're completely alien to. Yeah, there was Romanian people that I was like I love you, you're the coolest person in the world. I just want to hug you and you be my best friend, and you can't even understand each other. It's the most I don't.

Speaker 1:

I don't know how else to explain this and what you said is absolutely correct is the soul connection that you, that you share this experience with. It's almost like a near-death experience, right as everybody's in the plane and they're all going to. You know the plane's going to crash and it doesn't. The pilot saves it, and then everybody went through the shared experience. That was extraordinarily intense. And then you have this lifelong bond and I still have people on Facebook that are Romanian, that they write stuff in Romanian.

Speaker 1:

I'm like yeah, I hope you're doing awesome, you know, and it's Te pup, te pup, I give you kisses.

Speaker 5:

One of the things that, for me, was so profound because I had that vantage point of seeing people for three years in a row. I saw the growth and the transformation from the first year and the next time they would come back, they would be doing better and by the third year the change was just. The transformation was just so profound. It was, it's incredible.

Speaker 4:

And also we. I think we had an amazing facilitator. Alberto Iturbe was phenomenal. His patience and authenticity and his connection to the field and Integrity His integrity and the respect and for his two sons as well was truly incredible, and we were fortunate to be able to learn from him and see what a true facilitator looks like.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, I think that's an excellent point, anissia, and it's something that listeners, viewers, should keep in mind is, when they're exploring this modality, it's really important to do your research and do a constellation with a facilitator who is somebody who's trustworthy and well-known. That's that's of critical importance.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that has integral respect for the process. Yeah, yes, because there's, you know, and, and, as a facilitator, you start understanding. You're like, oh, here are the traps that people can fall into very easily, because most people want to want to fix other people. And it's like, and it's, it's so, um, ego driven to be able to do that Right. And it's like you, you just create the place where they can do that, and that's it, that's. Your only responsibility is to to hold the sacred space of where that healing is happening and go as far as the person is ready to go at that moment, yeah, and it may not be a happy ending.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's okay.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, that's why we have to keep reminding ourselves that, you know, maybe in this lifetime they're not ready and it's okay. But I think that's the hardest part.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, part, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I know that, um, I, I I feel very weird that I don't struggle with that, like I struggle from from me, as as me, as the person, but as the facilitator, you're just like this is what it is, and that's it, and it's like, yeah, you just kind of like it is, this is what it is, this is how far they're gonna get, and that's okay, and then you just move forward from there but as a person oh yeah, as a person, I can have understanding, yeah, and then really really understand where the where the person's coming from.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but it's, it's like that, that, that position, as like I I, when I first met alberto, I was like man, he's so rigid in his boundaries like that was. It was my internal judgment of my ego, like not understanding why his boundaries were so rigid. And then you, after all these years, you really understand is that you know that, that those boundaries create structure, and structure you can build upon. And you can build upon that deep healing right. Because if you don't have strong boundaries and you're loosey-goosey with those rules, it just it muddies everything and entangles everything. And the thing that we're trying to do as putting on these workshops is to disentangle people from unresolved trauma that doesn't belong to them, not to re traumatize and reentangle them into another dynamic and you, as a facilitator, not protect yourself and the sanctity of the space to be able to create that that that safe container.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that safe container. Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

Speaker 5:

It looked like rigidity to you is actually integrity.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a good way to put it. So what looks like rigidity to you is actually integrity. Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah, hi guys, I'm John, host of the Zulu One podcast. At the Zulu One podcast, we focus on having conversations about unresolved trauma and cultural and family systems. If you like what you're hearing, please consider becoming a monthly supporter. The link is below. Thank you, please consider becoming a monthly supporter. The link is below. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

So you know, I think, over over the next, you know, over the next few years, we're going to be doing this on a regular basis, coming back to do the, the, the home team, right, and I want to, I want to do, I want to pick up some heavy stuff.

Speaker 1:

Like you know, we just had a wild election that we went through to go and have some commentary on, you know, the stuff that we're looking at it from a systemic perspective, from a systemic lens, and have some hard conversations about what that looks like.

Speaker 1:

And I can't um, I can't um wish for two better people that I can, that I can do it with, and I'm, I'm really happy about this.

Speaker 1:

This is, this is this is going to be a lot of fun, and you, you know some of the people that I have the most spirited debates with in the world are the two people that are that are on this podcast.

Speaker 1:

Right, and I hope to have some of those hard conversations and spirited debates here, right, um, for us to be open and vulnerable and and authentic and who we are and have and have that conversation and if we disagree and that's okay we're going to be able to disagree and we're going to be able to do it with love and coming from a place of understanding and and build on this um, I I think that we have an opportunity to, to, to show people what it is to disagree and detach with love right still from a place of respect, still from a place that we disagree on several things, but we know that at the end of the day we're we're looking at the best version of each other, right, and from a place of love, and from a place of connection and understanding, rather than a place of judgment and entanglement.

Speaker 1:

And that's what the power of constellations is you can take what's yours and leave the rest behind and just keep moving forward, right.

Speaker 4:

Well, and the reality is we're at this state right now because we've worked so much on ourselves through all these years, starting in Romania until now and have that real connection is to take away all those layers of entanglement and messiness and carrying those patterns and traumas that don't belong to us. It helps us have more authentic relationships with each other.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the thing that I'm concerned about the most and you brought up a good point, the thing that I'm that I'm concerned about the most, that you brought up a good point is that you know, we we see in today's language talking about, you know, traumas and entanglements and patterns, and all this stuff from an excuse perspective, not from a. This is the track of healing perspective. Yeah, and, and that's like, that's such a. It's such a worrisome thing for me that you know, this language has been popularized but it's been popularized on the on the 180 of where it should be Right. Am I? Am I looking at that the right way?

Speaker 5:

Say more about that, John.

Speaker 1:

So, you know, people are like I'm the way I am because of my trauma. It's like, well, you can, you can not be that way if you deal with it as an excuse, they're using it as a weapon and they're saying I'm, they're weaponizing their, you know.

Speaker 1:

So there's their trauma dumping on everybody else, rather than saying, hey, yes, it's great that you've identified that now you can actually do something about it, like if you, if there's abandonment, if there's abuse, if there is neglect, if there was emotion unavail, if there's abuse, if there's neglect, if there was emotion unavailability, whatever those things are, I completely understand gaslighting narcissist and we're having all these conversations about that person, the narcissist. It's like let's get to a level where we can really start having a conversation and be like. If you're entangled with a narcissist, there's a lesson that you have to learn, right?

Speaker 1:

If you're if you're in a're in an abusive relationship, it's maybe recalling to your childhood of where that came from. So let's look at that and start giving people the tools and really educating people about that. These wounds are pathways to healing rather than being patterns that we have to repeat out of loyalty to our family system.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, that's so well put, John, but darn, that means I have to assume responsibility.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that sucks it does.

Speaker 5:

Who wants to do that?

Speaker 1:

It sucks, it sucks, it's terrible. I know, and I didn't want to assume responsibility. You know, I'm like. I'm the person that has to assume responsibility for every action in my life. I am the common denominator of everything that happens. Yes, in my life I am the common denominator of everything that happens.

Speaker 4:

Yes, both good and bad, and that's a tough pill to swallow, yeah, but one of the reasons why we have these podcasts is to teach people, is to make them aware of this healing modality that we've seen such a huge change in our own lives and that we're so passionate about that. We, you know, created this space to be able to share with the world. You know, as an educator, I teach in Chicago and Chicago public schools and I talk a little bit about my students, about, you know, generational trauma, and we meditate and we do activities of being grateful and, little by little, we start to help people become aware of these types of patterns so they have the opportunity to be able to heal them when they are ready and that's the hardest part is when they are ready to do it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I couldn't, I could. I could definitely see how people won't be ready for a little while, right, until they start getting educated about that, and that I think that's the point of this right Is to have that conversation. But, you know, I think from your perspective, it would be interesting from your perspective to understand, you know, because you're on the front lines, right.

Speaker 5:

Like I was.

Speaker 1:

I was at, you know, our my kid's school today and we were talking about you know how much teachers are dealing with mental health issues.

Speaker 1:

You know it's like it's, like so many people have, just after COVID, after everything that we've gone through, are just literally like screaming for help and they don't have effective methodologies of dealing with that. Therapy is great, medication has its purpose all those things are have their purpose, but I think we've we're evolving to some more to need some more effective tools, and that's why I'm such a fan of constellations is like that. You can. You know what, what if we created a world, you know people got the mental health support that they needed to be able to break these generational patterns and they're not trauma dumping on their students.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because, at the end of the day, that's what it is right. One of my kids, you know, was saying that their teacher had lost their husband right in the previous year to cancer and she, just, like trauma, dumps on on on the, on the kids that are in class and it's like man I, I really feel for this person. But they should, they should, they should get the help that they need, right, that they should have the effective tools to be able to deal and cope with this, with this stuff, because you have such influence over young children that you really have to have the right tools to be able to deal with that.

Speaker 1:

Do you see that in your environment, in your ecosystem?

Speaker 4:

Not necessarily with the teachers that I work with, because they're very conscious of the topics that they talk about with their students, the topics that they talk about with their students, and we're I'm fortunate to work in a department where we're aware of our feelings and everybody's working on themselves. So it's not we don't have the opportunity. Other departments it may happen or not, because the reality is we get to spend an hour with these students every single day and many of these students' parents don't get to see their child at all during the day because they're working.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

And then when they come home they have to cook, do laundry. So we have the ability to influence them quite a bit and more in the elementary setting, because they spend the whole day with their teacher. In high school they just spent one hour and then they switch.

Speaker 1:

So that influence can be positive or negative right. Is that kind of?

Speaker 5:

what you're saying, that influence, like you have?

Speaker 1:

such a staple in their lives that that can be. And, yeah, I think it's we, you know, saying Correct, like you have such, you're such a staple in their lives that that can be. And, yeah, I think it's we, you know, rather than and we have this conversation happens in politics a lot they're like oh, with the education system and department and blah, blah, blah, and they all point fingers but nobody has solutions, right? And I think you're. You're an example of being like hey, just by being somebody that's aware of the power of dealing with your crap, right?

Speaker 1:

Let's just put it in that, whatever modality that looks like, whether you do meditation, kung Fu, yoga, you know religion, however you find that, but the power of actually dealing with your demons, that you have an influence in your sphere, right that you have. I've met a lot of your teacher friends and they're all about, you know, working on themselves and becoming the best version of themselves and dealing with their crap, and that's really admirable.

Speaker 1:

There's there's this sea change that we can actually have a huge influence on, on on the country in a in a positive way and say here are some tools. It might not be for everybody, but this has been effective. This has worked for us. Us let's talk about it, let's have that conversation and start giving people tools to be able to kind of put these things to rest, rather than spreading them out and having that type of wrong influence on on on kids and exacerbating and continuing the patterns of trauma and creating the patterns of of of. You know pain and you know saying you are your wounds, you are your identity, you are whatever, whatever has hurt you in the past. You are identified as that thing and we can really give people the tools for change yeah, and I, and I think that's the hardest.

Speaker 4:

Sorry, go ahead, mom no, no, please and like today, we had a meeting with the principal because they're going to see if they're going to renew his contract or not, and then we had a meditation that a group of teachers and I did together, and one of the things it was about gratitude, like being grateful for what you have and the power we have with our presence, just with our present, with our eye contact that we have with every single one of our students in our classroom every single day.

Speaker 4:

And what I said was that's really hard to do when you have a lot going on, when you have a lot that you need to heal and work on. And the more you work on your like our slogan, work on your shit the easier it is to be able to be fully present for our students and for our teachers. So that's what really comes down to. I've tried to really throw how do you say throw a hook in school to see if anyone is interested. I'm like we're doing a workshop. I sent a mass email, which I wasn't supposed to, but I still did it, and there's just a lot of people that are not ready right now, and I think that's the hardest part.

Speaker 1:

But I think just even doing gratitude and meditation is humongous. That just that opens the cracks the door a little bit, that there's people that can't even be. Are you grateful right now, for right now can't come up with one thing? Well, if you can't come up, thank you. Um, can't come up with one thing. Right, they can't say I'm gratitude, I'm grateful, I'm gratitude, I'm grateful for opening my eyes or for being here, right, that I can breathe, I'm not in pain, that I'm sitting in a chair, that I have some light, that I have electricity, whatever those things are. To really give people the tools to change their mindset, because if they're in a negative thought pattern, that vortex pulls everybody in and it just has such power. Whether you're in a positive mindset or in a negative mindset, you can pull everybody into your vortex and make it contagious. And that contagion it goes both ways, for both positive and for negative feelings.

Speaker 5:

Well, is it the Brazilian school system that utilizes family constellations?

Speaker 1:

No. So the Brazilian court system For a divorce mediation. So imagine in a court where people are, you know divorces are wanting to take everything from each other and take the kids and do this stuff rather than destructive. You know a give and receiving, an exchange principle. Everybody has their place in the family system. Nobody is excluded. You really have those things to say and not from exclusionary to say everybody's kind of the modern definition of what that looks like, that everybody from the family system has a right to belong in that family system.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and it's remarkable that Brazil is doing that at that level, and I think that the percentages of divorce rate has gone down by 50%.

Speaker 1:

Really.

Speaker 4:

Which is remarkable.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, jeez. Yeah, I didn't know that that's a-.

Speaker 4:

Wait, let me fact check that right now.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I would fact check, because that's a, that's a big we might have to fact check that one. So we might have to well, maybe we'll have to, you know, put a correction out there on our website on the 50%, you know, decrease decreasing 50%, yeah, where's.

Speaker 5:

Joe Rogan's Jamie.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly Where's Joe Rogan's Jamie? To fact check that.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, I was just going back a little bit from one of the phrases that I found very frustrating that I read the other day. It said not everybody wants your help.

Speaker 1:

Oh well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5:

But I think one of the things that I've heard from people who are resisting, looking at working on their shit, is that they no, no, I don't want to open up that can of worms, I'm just going to let's just leave it as it is. You know, I've reached this stage, viewed in that way, and I think there's so many different options to get to the place of healing, and one of the things and I've done them all, I've done many, many different modalities but one of the things that I find most appealing about Family Constellations is sometimes you can see the representatives showing you something, shining light on something, a hidden family dynamic, and it's one and done and that's the end of it, and all it took was you having somebody representing that dynamic standing in front of you without, with you, saying very, very few words. It's represented, you see it and it's resolved, which is that's why it's so difficult to explain. You have to yeah, to experience it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

it's like telling somebody like what it is to go to a movie that's in imax and 3d when they've never, you know, be be them into a movie theater, right.

Speaker 5:

That's the.

Speaker 1:

It's just, it's such a difficult and that's like you know, and I'm, I'm just so, I'm blown away by people's humility and trust when they were like, okay, I'll go, you know they'll like I'll try it. And then they go and they're blown away and they go through this thing. It's like I'm just, I'm like so humbled by how much trust people put on you and to say I really trust you that I'm going to do this thing. That sounds insane. That sounds like I've like this is the most insane thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 1:

It may be some form of brainwashing that they're, but you start explaining it to them it may be some form of brainwashing and then they're on the other side of the looking glass, right, and they have this like extraordinarily cathartic, profound healing experience and they're like, okay, now I get it. And you're like, how do you? How do you? It's almost designed not to sell or to to promote or to build with people because, like there's people that have done it and there's people that haven't. And you know, you just kind of have to trust and get enough moment, systemic momentum, to get enough people to do it. That they're, you know, the echoes of their healing reverberates to their family and social system, and then, little by little, we can change the tide of being connecting rather than separating fall, to demystify it a little bit.

Speaker 5:

So let's say I decided I would like to do a constellation and I'm in Chicago and I signed up for a family constellation and I go on Sunday at 11 o'clock and I walk into the room and what happens?

Speaker 1:

Oh, so good thing that you brought that up. Just happens that November 17th this coming Sunday, we're going to be hosting a family consolation workshop at the Harpens Arts.

Speaker 4:

Center in Chicago in Logan Square in Chicago, Illinois at 11 pm Central time.

Speaker 1:

No 11 am Sorry 11 am Central time. It's a good thing that you brought that up. What would they expect? So about 25, 30 people sitting in a circle?

Speaker 5:

Why a circle? Why don't you sit in rows?

Speaker 1:

Why a circle and why don't you sit in rows? That's a great question. I think this goes into our ancestral DNA, that you know. We would all go through the the fire pit right or the the fire, and as a tribe we would sit around in a circle and everybody would communicate and commune. Um, I think there's a lot of power in a circle. Um, a meetings are in a circle. Al-anon meetings are in circles.

Speaker 1:

Um, you know, prayer circles the circle is a very, very powerful dynamic and everybody is is sitting on the same basic, the same dynamic, right, or the same pain, right, they're equal, right. Everybody's sitting around in a circle and what actually happens, what I, what I do, what I start with, is usually an exercise, and an exercise is what we would consider a mini constellation, and that exercise would be a way to everybody ease into the process of constellations, because the reality is that this work is extremely deep extremely deep we go, we jump into the deep end very quickly and um, what ends up?

Speaker 1:

you know, some people may ask, like what if I don't know what to talk about? Or what if I don't know what to what to say? Or what if I don't know what to ask? Or what if I don't know what I want to work on? Um, what usually comes up is like the first order of business, is like how I like to put it. And so you can say I'd like to work on the relationship with my mother or the relationship with my father. You can start that I want to work on the relationship with my parents. I may not have a good relationship. They might be emotionally unavailable, whatever dynamic is there. And then the circle right, and then you pick a representative to represent your mother and somebody to represent your father and somebody to represent you, and then represent your mother and somebody to represent your father and somebody to represent you, and then the dynamic plays out, magic begins, the magic begins and why?

Speaker 5:

why wouldn't you just have? You're my facilitator and this is my constellation. Why don't I just go in the circle? Why is it important that someone represent me?

Speaker 1:

um, so many times, people are in there. So the family constellation, the work is a work of the soul, not of the head. Right, we're uncovering the hidden dynamics that are inside of ourselves, rather than saying, oh, the stories that we tell ourselves from our childhood or whatever that looks like that, oh, I had a perfect childhood, nothing happened. And then you put the constellation together and then there's these dynamics that you're like, oh, that's actually deeply resonates with who I am. So you usually pick a representative, that, that somebody that represents you, so you can sit at it as a bystander and get and gain a new perspective of the family.

Speaker 5:

And if I were in that circle, my loyalties to my ancestors would prevent me.

Speaker 1:

It would stop it would block it Right, says I, because I am a member of this family. Out of loyalty, I'm going to carry this pain and we take on burdens that don't belong to us, right? So that's what you might see, and different burdens are carried by different siblings, right?

Speaker 1:

You might say there's, you know, a lost child in the family and one one, one child may carry that burden. For the other child there may have been a divorce and the one child carries that. So different disorders appear in the family by different members of the family. There may be the golden child, or the rebel, or the champion, and they all fill their roles out of loyalty to the family system and they say I'm so loyal that I'm going to carry this for you because they want to belong to the system.

Speaker 4:

Correct? We all have this huge urge to belong to something it's the most important because it's important to talk about also, like what not belonging means.

Speaker 1:

I think ancestrally, not belonging means you get cast out of the tribe and you literally die. So not being part of the tribe, not being part of the family system, is you, are, you are, you're going to, you know, go out and into the savannah or wherever, and to the jungle and you're going to perish. You don't have the power and the refuge of the, of the, of your, of your peer group.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, yeah, oh, go ahead on the German-Austrian border. And he was a Catholic missionary who went to the Zulu and he lived with the tribes and saw how they dealt with people of the tribe who fell outside the agreed-upon norms for that culture. And rather than ostracizing the people, they would bring the people into the fold to figure out what had happened. And so he came back. He was so moved he left the priesthood, got married and started the Bert Hellinger Family Constellation Therapy Center along the Austrian-German border, and from there it's just grown throughout the world. And what I find really fascinating is that his work continues. He's died. His wife, his second wife, continued on a bit of a different realm of family constellations, but the Institute still exists to this day and you can find facilitators who actually studied alongside Bert Hellinger and they say that toward the end of his life, when he would facilitate constellations, you would go into, you know, sit next to him in this big, huge circle, and there were no words exchanged.

Speaker 4:

No, it was an auditorium.

Speaker 5:

Yeah, because there's no need for words, because what happens in that circle, which is denoted as the field of consciousness, everything is known. So words are unnecessary and whatever lessons you need to see, whatever truths you need to see, you will be shown in that field of consciousness.

Speaker 1:

Going to deep cuts, deep cuts right now, going into the weeds. Yeah, I mean, I know that that may be difficult for some people to understand, but it is. There is profound movement in you know, when you get the people together and get into that circle to be able to, to have that, that that healing modality take place Right goes back to what we were talking about.

Speaker 5:

The importance of connection, which is my definition of spirituality, is we're all connected and we're connected to whatever you want to call that source. And even before, when I sign up for that family constellation on Sunday, even before I arrive, I am already connecting to the universe, to the source. And there may be impediments, I may get a flat tire, somebody may call me, somebody who's in my life, who is uncomfortable with me growing, because they're afraid that they may be left behind. There's going to be impediments sometimes that pop up that prevent us from breaking away from that, from that loyalty. And then when you get into the room and you feel this connection that Alicia was talking about, it's there, it's just, it's absolute magic.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the systemic resistance of not allowing you to break free from what that loyalty is right, and every excuse in the world will be able to show up. It'll be like, hey, my kid's not. Am I kid sick? Or you know, I got a flat tire, like you said, or my car broke down or whatever that looks like.

Speaker 4:

One time I broke my toe.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 4:

Two days before a constellation. Oh, wow that I was attending in Miami with Eric Lopez.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Wow. Yeah, that's profound systemic resistance.

Speaker 1:

I wobbled. Yeah, you just waddled waddled on over to the constellation.

Speaker 4:

I'm like, I'm not going to miss this Toe and everything, and I'm so grateful, because I'm so grateful that I went, because now Eric comes to Chicago twice a year and he does shamanic family constellations that are extremely powerful as well.

Speaker 1:

So you know and I think that's a good good thing to kind of transition to is that you know family constellations are not very popular in the United States yet I think, it's right before where yoga was in the 80s, right Like really at the cusp of becoming extraordinarily popular, but it has entered the zeitgeist in some capacity.

Speaker 1:

Right, there's been some Disney movies about it. Right, encanto is and I talk about this way too much on this podcast but the movie encanto is about family constellations, about unresolved inherited trauma and family systems. That's really what it's. And you know, people like eric and our and we've kind of over the years, amassed this community of people that are really into this modality of healing, that are and that are really creating their own versions of the work too which is really cool and and really evangelizing what this I mean evangelizing is not the right word, but really amplifying the voice of what this work is.

Speaker 1:

And I think we're about to experience and even with everything that's going on in the political space, everything that's going on in the cultural space, I think, ultimately and this is my own thought, right, so I won't speak for anybody but I ultimately think that what's happening in our cultural landscape is the systemic resistance before the healing. Yeah, yeah, it is that systemic resistance. I hope, I really hope it is, because I can't, I can't attribute it to anything else.

Speaker 1:

You know, I can't attribute it to anything else. Regardless of what your politics are, regardless of what your views are, if you're conservative, liberal, if you're a GDI, as my grandfather would call me, you know, whatever that is, like you can. I think that this is, at the end of the day, what this, this, this, this signifies is that systemic resistance, because we're at the cusp of it and there's no coincidence that this work and the systemic resistance is happening and all the distractions that we're experiencing, and all this stuff is all coming into it at one point and one intersection. And we're relaunching the Zulu One podcast, talking about healing, and you can't imagine how many people have been like I've never heard somebody put it that way. I've never heard anybody put it that way. I've never heard anybody talk about trauma in this way. It's not left versus right, it's not up versus down, polka dots versus stripes, it doesn't really matter. Like great, you know, you have your views. That's awesome. More power to you.

Speaker 1:

What we're talking about is the thing that unites us all, which is our shared experience, and that systemic connection between our members of the same family. Everybody came from a mom, everybody came from a dad, unless you are immaculately conceived. I'd love to meet that person, right? We all came from two parents and they came from two people, and they came from two people and they came from two people and they came from two people, and so on and so forth, until the first ancestors that ever walked out of the ocean or whatever the hell happened. Whatever anybody knows what happened, we all came from a system and we can all. We have a shared experience. We have a shared collective momentum that came into expressing what we are today, of everybody before this shirt. The shirt was designed by all the people that designed shirts from the past. Everything, this microphone, everything is a is a continuous expression of the of of everything that came before it. Why wouldn't our trauma and our culture be the same thing?

Speaker 4:

And people don't realize how their trauma can translate into their workspace.

Speaker 5:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 4:

And I feel like that's what's happening at my school, like what we're seeing in the government is starting to translate into our school, and it's just like, oh, wow.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 5:

Well, often we go into the circle with an idea in mind oh, I'm going to work on this problem or this problem. 90% of the time, the issue starts with your family of origin. That's the great starting point. Starts with your family of origin. That's the great starting point. And to Alicia's point, I certainly felt that when I was in a leadership role, I would look at the dynamics of some people, some coworkers, and I would think to myself I bet anything. This person has issues if they were rejecting me, had issues with their mother If they were rejecting my colleague, a male colleague. Issues with their father If they were rejecting their co-workers. Issues with their siblings. The system just continues to replicate.

Speaker 1:

It's like having a superpower. It's really weird. So should we have a?

Speaker 4:

big Z on our shirts.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, a big Z.

Speaker 4:

For Zulu 1.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, we should have a big H for healing. Yeah, geez, a big H for healing.

Speaker 5:

So, just going back to what you were saying about everything that's happening at this precise moment, I find it really interesting that it comes on the heels of the big pause which was COVID. Right, covid cracked the world wide open and now we have a chance to do this reset. And I was thinking about I was actually talking to Alicia's husband yesterday and I found myself getting we were just talking about politics and I found myself I was sitting on the couch right behind Alicia and I found I hadn't really processed what I was feeling. And we were just having this exchange and I was talking, and talking, and talking and all of a sudden I got tears in my eyes and I felt the emotion coming up, felt the emotion coming up, and I remembered your words, which you have repeated to me several times, and that is where logic isn't present entanglement is and I realized that my reaction was so oversized that I've got some work to do around that exercised that I've got some work to do around that.

Speaker 1:

What a gift. I mean, at the end of the day, that's a gift. And to be able to identify that and not get pulled by that trauma activation of what that is that you had, that in itself it creates such a self-awareness to say like, oh crap, there's something here that that I gotta deal with and this doesn't belong here. Like this belongs to the other thing, this belongs to. Whatever happened for whatever you know thing. I wasn't, I haven't been able to resolve, whatever that looks like. It's like it's such a gift because it gives you a map to be like deal with this next, it's such a gift. I mean, I'm I'm beyond ecstatic that we're relaunching the podcast, that we're having this conversation, that we're creating this momentum towards healing, that I'm doing it with my some of my favorite people in the entire universe, right, and I'm like I'm just I'm, I'm filled with gratitude. It's, I'm so excited about this. It can't, I can't.

Speaker 1:

I can't think of a more worthy cause than to do this and to do this with you guys like this is just like such a, it's such a blessing and it's such a gift I get.

Speaker 1:

I can't I get very emotional when I even think about it, because it's it's being deeply aligned with your purpose and it's um they're the japanese call, call, call this like um I can't remember what they call it, but it's a word with I, it's like, or something, and yeah, ikigai, exactly ikigai. Thank you, ian, um, it's. It's when you're, when your purpose aligns with, with what you're good at, it's like this, it's like you're just like in this profound alignment of what this, what this looks like, and it's just, it's such a, such a cool thing and everything in our lives has led us to this exact All the pain we've had.

Speaker 5:

we've experienced several deaths in our family, untimely deaths very difficult deaths.

Speaker 5:

But I'm not going to say, you know, I wish that would happen, but there's so much goodness and so many lessons contained in all of those experiences that have led us here. And I was going to say, john, it's not just the three of us, it's the three of us and all of your father and all of the ancestors behind us, because, you know, we walk through life thinking we have to white knuckle it. I feel so alone. Nobody understands me, nobody has ever lived this kind of pain. You forget all of the pain and all of the lessons that your ancestors lived. You embody, you carry all of that ancient wisdom inside of you. That's another superpower.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 5:

You just tap into it which we did through that meditation. It's so powerful.

Speaker 1:

You can always go to Michelle Blackmon, our dear friend. Michelle always says that your ancestors are overstaffed and underworked.

Speaker 4:

They're ready.

Speaker 1:

You have all these people standing behind you. That you can just sit down, close your eyes, connect and be like please show me what I need to do next, you know, please show me what. Or please support me. Or I have all these people that are that are supporting me and, regardless of the relationship, regardless of the circumstance, regardless of the stories, regardless of whatever that looks like, that you can go always back to that resource. Yeah, absolutely, that's. That's a very good point.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, absolutely, that's truly a beautiful experience.

Speaker 1:

And you know, with all of its complexities as well. Yes, Because we're all still going through stuff, right?

Speaker 2:

Oh, a lot.

Speaker 1:

It's not to say that you know like we're. You know these healed people going through life and we have all the answers. Like no, we're still dealing with.

Speaker 4:

A lot.

Speaker 1:

You know massive amounts of shit. You know that we're still all dealing with and we're working through those things, but we're working through it. You can dealing with and we're working through those things and but we're working through it. That's you can, you don't, you can't give us much, but you can give us that, we're working on it. Right, it's like I'm a work in progress and I think all three of us are, and we're you know everybody in our family systems are, but that's the beauty of it and we're all just walking each other home yes, that's a very good.

Speaker 1:

Not my phrase, but I love it. That's a very good one. That's a very good one. Not my phrase, but I love it. That's a very good one. That's a very good one.

Speaker 5:

That's a very good one. Who's he from? You know that His name is Ram Das.

Speaker 1:

Ram Das, ram Das.

Speaker 5:

Ram Das. Sorry, ram Das. He was a psychologist, a writer, an author, a yoga instructor. He was a visionary.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. So I think on that note, thank you guys very much for completing the first Zulu One podcast, the home team, the family of origin, One of these. We're going to get dad in here to see if he can.

Speaker 4:

That'll be you know the OG4. That's all that matters.

Speaker 1:

More than one, More than one, yeah which is very powerful, which I'm very grateful for Me too. Thank you, guys, for first of all convincing mom starting this journey. We have to honor you in this process that, even as painful as that was, that all these years later, that we're here and that all of this pain has has purpose right and it's such a beautiful thing, yeah they're all just lessons.

Speaker 1:

Life lessons yeah yeah, and I'll just thank you or alicia, alicia thank you um thank you for for being um my partner in healing throughout this process as well you know us doing this work is hard. There's a lot of resistance, but it's worth it and I wouldn't pick another bunch of people to do this with to be in the trenches with doing this work. So thank you guys.

Speaker 4:

Thank you, love you, love you.

Speaker 1:

Love you Bye. Thanks for tuning in to the Zulu One podcast. If you found value in today's podcast, please don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Your support means everything to us and thank you for being part of this journey.

People on this episode

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John Acosta

Host