ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

03. How Family Constellations Can Transform Your Relationships | Macha Einbender

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This podcast was recorded on November 21st, 2024.

What if the key to healing your family relationships and breaking generational cycles lies in understanding hidden dynamics? In this episode of the Zulu One Podcast, we explore the transformative power of Family Constellations with Macha Einbender, a skilled facilitator whose work has improved countless lives. Macha shares personal stories of how this systemic healing modality has strengthened marriages, deepened parent-child connections, and uncovered the roots of generational trauma. Together, we discuss the profound insights and practical steps that can lead to lasting transformation in relationships. Don’t miss this conversation filled with real-life breakthroughs, wisdom on balancing family systems, and Macha’s vision for making this work more accessible to everyone.

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Find more from Macha: Michelle Blechner: www.Michelleblechner.com


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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Zulu One Podcast. Today I'm interviewing Masha Einbender, a highly skilled and experienced family consolation facilitator. She dedicates her expertise to help individuals understand and navigate relationship and dynamics within their families. Through her extensive experience and innovative methods, she skillfully facilitates engagements that allow for a deeper understanding of family ties, providing insight and resolution to long-standing familiar issues. This unique approach has positioned her as a key figure in her field, making a profound impact in the lives of her numerous clients. Today on the podcast we have Masha Einbender, a family constellations facilitator that's been doing this work for decades, right Masha, what would you say?

Speaker 2:

How long you've been a student? For more than a decade, but definitely been, you know, doing this work actively as work and as a facilitator, probably like in the last five years, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Five years. So when did you, when were you first introduced to it? Like, what was the? What was that like?

Speaker 2:

So it's actually really cool. I would say, like 14 years ago, maybe 15 years ago, yeah, my kids were really small and I was in like this phase of my life where I just wanted to try everything. I was raised super spiritual, like you, and always loved anything that was like new. Anything that was new I wanted to try. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I figured you know, this sounds really cool. And I found out about this thing called Family Constellation and I thought, oh my God, this sounds amazing, I want to try it. And I heard about this girl who was doing it and I invited her to come to my house and I invited a bunch of my friends who did not know what they were getting themselves into and they rarely do. Now, looking back, I think to myself like, oh my, what did I do to my friends? Like, thank God, they still talk to me. I mean, seriously, they all came to my home and Natalie came over and she did me first, obviously because it was my house, my idea, and I was blown away. I mean the tears that were falling down my face.

Speaker 2:

I felt like what have I been doing all my life? Like, oh my God, why didn't I discover this sooner? So I called my mom, who you know very well, michelle, and I called her up and she was living in Miami at the time and I was like all right, I found the best thing ever. I healed you, I healed me, I healed seven generations back. I thought it was hot shit. You know, I don't know, were you allowed to curse Humpies? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Okay, cool, I thought I was so cool. I was like, you know, you got to fly here, I'll get this chick to come back and you have to discover it, and my mom's always up for anything. God bless her. She was like, okay, I'll come, masha. So she came and she was blown away as well. Now what she did was she ran with it. She was like I, I want to do this.

Speaker 2:

You know, my mom has a degree in psychology and she's always been like a lifetime coach. You know, officially, like at the time she was life coaching and she's always been a businesswoman and and always saw like opportunities that that lit her up and she traveled the world. She worked with Bert, she worked with you know, all the people that I had never even heard of and, like I said, I always tell her all the time. I'm like you know anything cool you discovered through me. Don't forget that you know so. So, obviously, when, when I just saw firsthand how many lives it touched and how many people this helped, and after seeing so many people, you know, just witnessing so much pain and suffering and having been in a community of people who have been actively spiritual all their lives, like we're talking, abraham Hick Cruises, you know, doing Louise Hay affirmations every single day, drinking green juice.

Speaker 2:

I mean people who were spiritual and living life well but were in bad relationships and were, you know, spiritually wealthy but financially depleted. And when they discovered this, all of a sudden, their lives would change. All of a sudden, their relationships would work All like. I mean, I always see it I'm sure you do too when you're in the field and you see somebody like there before, before being on the field, and then after, it's like they've just been reborn.

Speaker 2:

I mean, it's better than botox like they literally like, and they come out and they're like glowing, and you're like, wow, you are a beautiful person who knew, you know, um, so it's, it's something that I I discovered that I really wanted to pursue and be able to help other people and you know, of course, help my mom, because I think my mom is so brilliant at it and I know she always talks about your family and your mom and she loves your family and your mom so much and just all the people that I've met, facilitators that are just so extraordinary, so I wanted to join the family and do this and it seems so much it's a work of family systems, right, it's like you can't help but bring your family system into the family constellations, right, it's part of the conversation and for a little bit of kind of housekeeping.

Speaker 1:

For people that don't know, masha's mother, michelle Blechner, is a at this point, world-renowned family constellations facilitator, and I remember when she went to her first constellation with Mark Wolin that's the author of Didn't Start With. You Start With you. And that's where we originally met. And so to see her transition, or like her you know this word is overused but to see her growth in that or that journey that she's gone to now you know you guys were in Abu Dhabi recently, I mean yeah.

Speaker 1:

Can you tell me a little bit about that, like from seeing her from first discovering constellations and I know she has, like the Abraham Hicks you know background for anyone that's more law of attraction kind of world and, of course, miracles. I know she had some work there but to see her growth to where she is now is incredible. Tell me a little bit about Abu Dhabi how that, how that or how the relationship came about.

Speaker 2:

Well, so about, I would say, like two years ago, she met somebody who was affiliated with Tony Robbins and and they had talked about my mother, and so then they had invited my mom to come in and teach in Mexico at one of their events they call happiness, and we went. I went with my mom because you know my mom, I mean at the time she was 79. Now she's 82. She was turning 80 that year, and so you know, of course, I went with her and it was magic. I mean, it was like, first of all, most of these people who were all like, devoted to Tony Robbins and devoted to motivational lifestyle, they had never even heard of Family Constellation. And there were people there from all over the world which really struck me because I was like, wait, like why is this so unpopular? And you and I have talked about this a lot, you know the resistance to it, and but I mean some of these people now, like two years later they are, their lives have changed completely, like the same people. I mean it's incredible because, like it's the same people. So you see them, their evolution of who they are now. I mean we're talking about going from wanting to take their own lives to now being to being coaches themselves and and saving millions of other people, thousands of other people. So that was very cool.

Speaker 2:

And then that opened up this whole community of beautiful people. Just amazing, just amazing. I mean, you know the whole Tony Robbins community. Actually, the reason why I have this cup of hot tea and honey is because I just came from UPW, where I played all out and he lost my voice and you know, just like jumping up and down and saying yes, and you know all that stuff. And then she got invited to go to Abu, dhabi, which was just, I mean, oh my God, like a month ago we were in Abu Dhabi and again the same type of event, this happiness event and same group of people, but of course, they always add on and just seeing my mom up there and helping people and helping them discover these missing pieces to themselves and restoring order and love in their family dynamics, it was incredible. Best part, too, is that my 15-year-old daughter came with us. Oh, that's so cool.

Speaker 2:

It makes me emotional because I love that she got to see her grandma like in such, just like in all her glory, you know, because when my mom is up there she is like it's unbelievable, it's like something takes over her and she always says it's not her, she's a bridge, you know, like she does this work and something beautiful comes through her. So the fact that Remy was able to see that and witness that is was really cool such a beautiful thing to see.

Speaker 1:

it's just a generational healing playing out as well, like the effects of the generational healing, because I've I've witnessed your mom also do a lot of personal work and so it's just like just such a beautiful thing to go through that and and be there and then you know, like fully step into her power, you know, and in the phase of life that she's in is also just such a beautiful thing too as it become. This like spiritual mentor and guide is just it's, it's really incredible to witness what that, what that looks like. And I remember being in in her living room here in miami and just started the meditations. We were just like starting with the meditations, right, and then little by it, grew into this constellations on a regular basis, and then now, where it is now is like it's incredible and it's just it's really humbling to see the power of this work.

Speaker 1:

And you know we talk about systemic resistance is what we were talking about a little while ago and to kind of explain what that is, it's the system's reaction to change Right, that says, hey, I want to keep this the same. There is a force or there's a, there's a reactionary effort to not make it change Right. So a lot of people talk about when they're on the way to a, to a workshop or a family consolation. You know your call, your kid calls in sick, or you get a flat tire, your car doesn't start, or you know your alarm went off. It didn't go off, or whatever that is that's going to prevent you from making this movement happen. Did you guys witness that with Tony's events at all, or was there just so much momentum that it really didn't affect it?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a beautiful thing about the Tony events is that there's really very little resistance. The resistance that you see, that I see all the time in those kinds of events, are people that they'll sit down next to my mom and my mom will say you know, um, so what do you want to work on? And they're like no, everything is great. You know, I mean really no complaints, I, I really can't think of anything.

Speaker 2:

And then all of a sudden, you know, just, my mom's like, hmm, very interesting, and then everything kind of unfolds like it's, and it's never what you expect it to be. So that's the type of resistance that I've seen there. But I've seen all sorts of resistance, you know, all around of people that are so excited to come to a workshop and, like you said, their, their kid gets sick or something happens or whatever it is, and they don't come. And people that I've known all my life that know exactly what my mom does or what we do, and they see firsthand what's happening and it's like come on, you, we can, we can make this happen for you. We, you know, just give it a chance. But yeah, I think there is definitely that systemic resistance that is at play.

Speaker 1:

I've literally seen somebody walk to your mom's door, turn around and leave yeah, totally yeah, just turn around and leave. You know which was like, oh my gosh, like that, there's just so much. There's so much loyalty, and that's what we see in family constellations. A lot is that I'm so loyal to my family system that I'm willing to carry this burden, even if it costs me my life.

Speaker 2:

Exactly Like that beautiful book too. I mean, really, it's you know, and in retrospect, like I didn't know what I was getting myself into that first day, when I invited all my friends over and did that, I thought we were going to have a little spiritual gathering, kind of like the equivalent of a sound bath healing. I didn't know that I was going to. And actually every single person that's been my OG, consolation group everybody's in a very different place. Energy, um, constellation group everybody's in a very different place. Like life has, like not to quote Tony, but life has never been the same basically since since then.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, so that's, that's a beautiful thing that I know is that every single person that I invited into my home that first day um, I'm close with all of them still, and they've all, they all broke through things and continue to do the work, little by little, some more than others, but every single one of them has shifted from a place of fear, whatever it is and so when you know, I I saw, I think I saw the documentary, the the tony tony, I'm not your guru documentary, and um, what I noticed is that he's talking he seems like he's talking already about systemic principles in his own way, kind of talking about it, and I'm like, is he doing constellations?

Speaker 1:

is he, is this part of it? And then come to find out. I asked a couple people that had been, that had been involved with him previously, and I suddenly, you know, like it saw that it was like no, he's not. And then your mom came into the picture and I'm like, oh my gosh, it'd be really interesting to see what that group looks like and doing the family constellations and having that part of it. You know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he was totally pre-filled. But you know, a lot of what he talks about is so much like that generational healing. And I mean because he's had his own wounds as a kid and his own family dynamic. So I think that you know, most of the time people start there right, you start like with like what your family, what your relationship was like with your mom, with your dad, but then to be able to go and actually fix that I I hate the word fix, but to you know what I'm talking about Reconcile, reconcile. I love that. Yeah, just reconcile and put all those pieces back together and restore love and order. And it's just a beautiful gift because everybody wants to heal their relationship with their parents, with their families, with themselves. People just don't know how.

Speaker 2:

Or, like Mark Wolwan said, he was going blind and his life was falling apart and he traveled the world and the greatest gurus were saying to him go home and work on your relationship with your mom. And he was like that is not what I traveled across the world to find out. Give me something more. What herbal supplement should I take? What can what? What can I do to heal this? And and um. But yeah, it really does start there, your mom and your dad.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, that's like the the hardest work that that you can do is sitting right in front of you right as to understand your parents.

Speaker 2:

A hundred percent. I mean, it's so much easier to love your friends and to love you know even strangers or to forgive other people, but you know to really take a long look at your mom and your dad and your family dynamic and your everything that comes behind you and finding out you know what wars your family has been in, what tragedies and also, like I always like to say because I'm so rooted in Abraham, it's like what gifts can you bring forward? What beautiful talents? There's so many resources that we can get from our ancestors. So once you start diving in deep there, it's like a gift, the gift that keeps on giving. It's beautiful.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I love your mom saying our ancestors are overstaffed and underwork and underworked, right, yes, yes, yes, like we don't call on them and you know they, they want to help us, they don't.

Speaker 2:

You know, she always says all the time like they do not want you to carry this pain for them. You know she, so she had everybody in Abu Dhabi like saying in their, in their native tongue this pain does not belong to me, because Mark Wolven's book yeah, so Mark Wolven's book, translated in French, is um or um and in Spanish right. So which is very different from it. Didn't start with you. Yeah. So it like hits harder.

Speaker 4:

It hits a lot harder, yeah it hits a lot harder Like this pain is not mine.

Speaker 2:

Holy shit, like I don't need to carry this anymore, like I've. You know all these people that have been carrying around generational burdens that they have no idea, they don't understand. Why are they depressed? Why are they anxious?

Speaker 1:

What's going on? Why are they sick? And it's oftentimes because they've been carrying something out of loyalty for years. You know that seemingly have their life together, are in that toxic relationship and they're getting. You know they're in a in a toxic dynamic at work and they're spiritually abundant but financially, you know, barren Right, and you see like these things don't make sense unless you add the other dynamic of saying there's systemic loyalties in the family system that you're, there's patterns that you're repeating and when put that into play, you can start really being like oh, there's a whole and I like to call it math because I don't know, I don't know how else to put it but there's like a whole part to the equation that's affecting my day-to-day life that I have. No, that I didn't even know that existed until you do this type of work of family constellations, do you see that in people just having that realization, that click like pre-constellations and post-constellations?

Speaker 2:

For sure all the time, like something just finally registers in their head, especially when everybody was tapping their foot, doing this stampede of like, stampeding of like. This pain does not belong to me. I mean, people were saying it in Russian, people were saying it in Spanish, people were saying it in, and she had them all say it in all their native tongues, and and then you would see them cry, cause it's like they realize right then and there that whatever they've been carrying is not theirs.

Speaker 1:

You know it's like, it's like carrying other people's like suitcases when you don't have to, when you know it's like, why are you doing that to yourself? Yeah, and and out of just um, out of loyalty, out of love, right, of course, that's what we all do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we all do it out of love and loyalty, and we're, of course, loyal to our family. We never want to betray them.

Speaker 1:

Tell me, talk to me a little bit about you know, your relationship with your family, from a systemic perspective but also from the day-to-day. How do you balance those two things? The you know, the wisdom of the field also, but also the human right. There's, there's, there's a very human aspect of all of us. How do you balance those two things?

Speaker 2:

So you know, obviously family is very important to me and, um, and somebody who's always made like my friends, my family too, because I was only child and, um, I shouldn't say that I was the only child, actually like we could talk more about that too but I had a half. I have a half sister and I had a half brother who passed?

Speaker 2:

away. So, um, you know, um, that's a realization that I had in Abu Dhabi, which was really wild. We could talk about that. But how I do with my family is that it's really important for me for my family to always know that I'm here for them and that, you know, always want to be a resource of being someone that's helpful and that is there to listen to them and to be there for them. So, no matter who's in my family, no matter what's going on, I'll stop anything for them.

Speaker 2:

As far as my you know, my parents are concerned, obviously, like, I think about my father every day. My father's passed away years ago, so, you know, I honor him. I think about different things that I know would make him smile, make him happy. I know certain things that he would be like no, no, no, mosh, that's not good, you know like. So I do think about that.

Speaker 2:

My mom obviously I have a very close relationship with her and definitely, you know, work through a lot of different things Wasn't always perfect, but I think that's like that's beautiful in itself because it gives you compassion to be able to help with other things. So I would say that now we're in a pretty good space, good place, which is good for her image. I mean, nobody wants to go to somebody who's estranged from their family to help heal their own repair, to help heal like their own rip. And as far as my husband and my children are concerned, I'm very, it's very important that there are no, there are no secrets. I don't, you know, I don't, I don't really hide anything. I mean, you know, once in a while, my husband, I'll hide something, a purchase or something you know hide the Amazon boxes, but you know.

Speaker 2:

But we laugh about that stuff and yeah, so in my day-to-day life, that's some of the stuff that you know, just always being upfront, always being authentic and always making sure that they know that I am the big one. They are the little ones, not putting too much responsibility and burden on them, but you know enough responsibility so that they grow. I mean, I have a 17 and a 15 year old, so you want to give them some responsibilities, but never thinking that my happiness depends on them.

Speaker 1:

You know that, like they are, that is a price that a lot of children have paid. You know that, like they are, that is a price that a lot of children have paid.

Speaker 2:

Totally Like I'm good, you know, like there's nothing that you guys can do, or you know, like there I'm, my happiness is my own work and my joy is my own work. As their joy is their own work, I mean, I'll do anything to make them happy and all of that. But I also know that there's not, you know, unless you want to be happy yourself, there's really not much you could do as a parent. So that's, that's important. So it's important for me to model, obviously, a good relationship with their dad and, um, you know, with my husband, like that's important, you know, for their future relationship. So, you know, all those things are things that I keep in mind, um, and just teaching them every day that family is important and family, friends and family. You have to be there for them, for people Never ignore anybody's pain.

Speaker 3:

Hi, I'm Alicia John's sister and partner of Zulu One. Together, we're focused on creating a community of healing and growth. You can help by becoming a supporter on Buzzsprout Just click the link in the description. Thank you so much for being a part of this journey with us.

Speaker 1:

Masha, what does it look like, on the day-to-day relationship with your husband, having this additional aspect of family constellations as a tool in your tool belt?

Speaker 2:

isolations as a tool in your tool belt. So you know it's great, I mean he loves it. He's not like he's been on the field, he's done, he's done workshops, he's participated but and he honors the work deeply, but he's not like, oh my God, let me go along with this is so cool. You know he loves my mom, so anything that you know she does and that I do, he takes a particular interest and he sees the value of it. You know, but my husband is a, he's a dentist. You know he's like he's, he's pretty grounded, loves to fish. You know, like meat and potatoes type of guy, but he, he definitely sees value in this and in our relationship.

Speaker 2:

Like I, this is where I've learned a lot just in my life, and not even through family consolation but with other spiritual things that I've done. But family consolation as well is just like the dynamic between a husband and a wife and how to honor that. You know, just like there are certain things like I know that when he comes home from work, like just leave him alone for half an hour, you know that transition period, let him just settle in, settle down, um, not come at him, um, just honoring that, the space that he's in, and also to nobody wants. Nobody wants to be coached in a couple. You know that's.

Speaker 2:

There's nothing sexy about that, you know like there's, just like you know, there's nothing like that, like so, if he asks for advice, I'll and he does a lot I'll offer it and you know, and he values that advice from my mom, from myself, my mom's helped him personally and in business and with relationships and things like that helped him personally and in business and with relationships and things like that. So I think that's an important factor is, like I I've never been one to exert my beliefs onto onto anyone. So and like I mentioned before, like he's, he's got it going on, he's pretty good. I've known my husband since I was five years old, so I know that's a gift.

Speaker 2:

Yeah it is a gift. So I knew what I was getting myself into. I know his family, I know his dynamics, you know like where, uh, my mom knows his family, my mom knew his dynamics, my dad, everybody. So that was that was great. It's like I already knew, you know what the family system was like. So yeah. I mean it's it's had, it's had challenges, had challenges like every single thing, but I would say that for the most part, it's been pretty amazing yeah, really good, and that's.

Speaker 1:

You know, once, once I started like really getting into this work and I I met my wife right after I did my first constellation, about six months after I did my first constellation, and you know, you start seeing the forest rather than the trees in some way, and you're like, oh well, this is, oh, this is another pattern that's in my family and this is a pattern that's in my family. And then you know like, okay, well, let's, let's work on this and I'll be like I'll work on this and we'll, little by little, and and it's just been, I attribute the success of my relationship with my wife and the father that I am 100% to this work. I just can't, I can't attribute it to anything else. It's not through, you know, just my innate skills. Right, it's not just this. You know that I just ended up being. It's just the more that I work on myself, the more available I am, the more present I am, the more I'm unentangled from from old patterns and the more I can right size my relationships with everything and my reactions to things. It's just such a a powerful tool that and I you know this this podcast is literally about family consolation.

Speaker 1:

So this is what we talk about, but I'm like I'm a broken record. I'm like, well, I'm from, from a systemic perspective, this is probably you know, and I can, I can kind of come off like that, you know, and be just like to consolation and and I I struggle with that. I struggle with that, with that aspect because, know, when you facilitate a constellation, you're doing the stuff and you see the pattern over and over and over and over and over and over and over again you, you, I, I, I know, I, I struggle with having the empathy that people are at the beginning of the journey, not at, not at, you know, 16, 17 years later, you know through throughout this process. So that's right, do you do you ever um, with that type of, that type of dynamic or kind of understanding things or just jumping into facilitating with things, with people?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, a lot, definitely.

Speaker 2:

I think it's like a you know, um, um, that's definitely something that I, that I do, you know, uh, especially with if I have friends who have um, are divorced or you know things like that, I'll, you know, remind them to talk nicely about their formers, you know, and you know, just to bring up certain things about their spouse, their former spouse, that they see in their kids.

Speaker 2:

You know those types of things, but usually it's pretty welcomed and I've learned kind of when to shut my mouth and when to put my two cents in, so that people don't hate me, that certain behaviors, like if my, you know, my kids will tell me something I'll be like, well, you know, like the reason why that so-and-so is so-and-so, because obviously they have, you know, issues with their this, you know, so, like I'm I'm able to have like that different type of hat on Um, but I've tried not to be like overly, like overly worried or anxious or scared, cause then that creates a whole other thing. You know, like I can't be concerned about every little thing that comes out of my mouth or my husband's mouth, like in fear that I'm causing like generational trauma, you know, or like because I mean they have to have something to tell their therapist later on or their facilitator like they'll have to have something to work on.

Speaker 2:

Otherwise it's not fun. But but you know, for the most part I'm I'm pretty, I'm pretty careful, but it does seep into my life a lot because it's it's so personal. So, yeah, I mean it happens a lot. You know where I'm talking to a friend or I meet somebody. I mean I don't know about you, but I'm always meeting strangers and they're always telling me their life story. So you know, can't help it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It's painful, how much it's like oddly painful, how much people are just starving for connection. And if you're just open and you're not entangled in your own kind of crap, right you, you could just open up your, your perception a little bit. And people are like I'm starving for connection and I think that's what at the end of the day, what that, what that really is but kind of going to a previous point, you were um.

Speaker 1:

You were talking about um parenting right. It's like how how much this work has, or like, do you see, do you see how this work has? Has um gone into your kids? Is that something? That that you've, that you've seen that connection?

Speaker 2:

For sure, like I I mean my, both my kids are very compassionate, loving beings and, um, you know, they recognize the human suffering and human emotions very well. They're both like super connected to that. And with my parenting, you know I just we talk about love a lot, we talk about forgiveness, we talk about you know just how we can create our own reality, how different the things that we tell ourselves and the words that we choose to use very important and yeah, you know that comes into my parenting, I think, every second of every day pretty much.

Speaker 1:

And you mentioned something that was really important to, I think, to have a conversation about, and, for the listeners that don't know anything about family constellations, what are kind of some of the hidden dangers of speaking ill of your former partner, like what's, what's some of the dynamics that come through that well a former partner, like if you, if you're married before and you have children with that person, your children are you, you know, part you, part your former.

Speaker 2:

So if you start bashing them, your child is internalizing that. They're internally saying like well, then there's the who they perceive to be the weaker parent and it causes just like unnecessary stuff. Like why do that? So, even if you despise your former, it's important to find things that can kind of reconcile that. You know like, oh my God, when you smile like that, it reminds me so much of your dad. Or, um, the way that you play the piano is so much like your mom. It's such a beautiful gift that you inherited from her. Those things bring that back to form of center and and love, so that the child knows that they were created in love.

Speaker 2:

I mean, you didn't hate your former when you had the kid, you know most of the time, no so, but I think it's really important as a as a parent, when you're, when you're going through that, because when you're, when you have kids, you're married for life pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, you're in that system for life, for forever, yeah. Right Forever. And that doesn't mean that you have to have a relationship with that person, but it you know it's helpful that there are gifts that are brought into the mix and you can.

Speaker 1:

you can wish them well for the sake of your children, you know, in some ways.

Speaker 1:

But you know, maybe, whatever the story is or whatever happened, you can, you can reconcile and potentially make your peace or not with that, but you can say from a distance, I wish that this person, I wish this person well, because the stronger that they are, the stronger our children will be. And so many people say like my kids, my kids, these are my kids. Like there are children, there are two people had to come together. Well, regardless of those circumstances, regardless of the story, to bring life Right and to be able to give your children that gift is a really powerful moment.

Speaker 2:

It is because it is about the kids, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

At the end of the day, it really is about their, because then they'll have to deal with things later on. That, you know, just not too great. We've seen it. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So, masha, what do you see? Where do you see this work going? Where do you see the constellations? What do you see?

Speaker 2:

you know the future of constellations and from your perspective, I would love to see it be so mainstream that it's like, you know, it's like drive-through constellations, like that would be really cool, but just something that is, that that resistance just dissipates and that there are more and more facilitators that do this work and that do it powerfully and beautifully, and that there are more opportunities to do these large groups and workshops, because I think when people come together, it's such a gift. And I've seen these constellations, these breakout rooms, these events where there's like a hundred people or more, and I mean there was a.

Speaker 2:

There was a situation that happened in Abu Dhabi that affected me personally was, um, it was on half siblings you know which which, if you think about like, even the word half, it's like, it's like the word X, you know like it's like you're half my sister, you're half my, you're my half brother, and it was beautiful. It was a beautiful unfolding for me to see, because I really always considered myself an only child. My parents had me. I have these half siblings from my father's former marriage that were way older than me, you know, that were more like aunts and uncles, you know, and I mean we're talking like 20 years older than me like just, you know, a big, big age gap.

Speaker 2:

We didn't grow up together, we barely saw each other, and but they still have to be acknowledged and they still have to be honored as part of me. So when I saw that being unfold, that was amazing and like there were so many people there and people kept stepping up and being in this, like a lot of people have the same dynamic of not talking to their you know their resentment towards their half sibling or whatever it was, and it was beautiful, Like we were all hugging each other. And I was up.

Speaker 2:

I was up there like kind of helping my mom facilitate and meanwhile, like I'm having this breakthrough moment, which was it was cool, it was very cool and I was so grateful to it, so I was able to to heal. There's always something to heal, you know. It's like always something.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and there's such power in the integration of of the ones that we don't even know that they're excluded, but they have they, they, but that everyone has their place in the family system. And I've seen your mom do this work a lot. It's like this is my first relationship.

Speaker 1:

This is my second relationship. This is my third relationship. You are my fourth relationship. Even people that you had it could have been a high school kind of sweetheart thing that that person has a place in your story, right, rather than than having this, this exclusion and same thing comes with half or with you know, siblings, that they're, they're, they're part of your, your system. They're part of your system. Even the perpetrators in your system have their place.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

That's so hard to reconcile and that's such a difficult conversation to have to say. Even perpetrators have their place in the system.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean that's why this work is definitely like not mainstream yet, because I think until people can get to that place, everybody's so divided like good, bad, you know, evil this like black and white.

Speaker 2:

you know it's just. Life is not like that and that's what one of the things that Family Constellation has shown me. I mean, I've seen so many situations where I used to judge. You know this type of behavior and then here I am playing that type of behavior on the field and you know this heart opening experience of being a perpetrator. And. I'm not somebody who perpetrates, yeah, and so being playing that role and really diving in deep on the field of being that, it's like you're a wounded animal. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And once you see that compassion, that like nobody wants to be, nobody wants to be bad, nobody wants to do that kind of, nobody wants to hurt people. So once I started to see that like my whole relationship with the world changed, I mean it still creeps in.

Speaker 1:

I'm human, human, but yeah so, um masha, can you talk about, from your guys's family perspective, the importance of the of the perpetrator dynamic?

Speaker 2:

so um would you be referring to, like the holocaust and that?

Speaker 1:

kind of thing okay, yeah, so um your dad being a world war ii vet right and yeah, so.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I mean, there's so many layers and that. So my mom is a Holocaust survivor. My grandfather, my mom, was in Marseille, france, when all of that was going down. My grandfather, isidore, was deported to Auschwitz and my mom, who was one years old at the time, with my grandmother, they were in hiding, and what was going on during that time was my father, because my parents were 22 years apart. So my dad was an American soldier World War II and he was, you know, part of saving Europe.

Speaker 2:

And you know there were certain things that happened that you know like just war casualties, casualties of war. The Americans dropped a bomb on my great-grandmother's home, wow, and my great-aunt was pregnant. She was 19, newly married, pregnant and she died. And my great-grandmother suffered head injuries. She was in the hospital for a long time and did not know that her daughter had passed away because you know she would have lost all will to live. Her own husband was away at another camp. You know her son-in-law.

Speaker 2:

My grandfather, was in Auschwitz. There was a lot going down. So do we blame the Americans? No way, you know, like they saved us. Do we blame the Americans? No way, you know like they saved us.

Speaker 2:

And you know, there's another perpetrator in the story, my grandfather's best friend. I don't know if he was his best friend. He was calling in his debts, kind of they were going to go to Switzerland. So he was, you know, like, hey, you owe me this amount of money, I'm looking to leave, whatever it is. And at the time in Marseille you were getting money for denouncing Jews, you know, telling the police where they were hiding or if they were leaving or where they were. Because the south of France, over there in Marseille, was one of the last places ever taken, actually during World War II. So that's why my grandfather went to Auschwitz, like kind of late in the game, like he was there I hate to say only nine months, but he was there nine months whereas some other people were there for a couple of game. Like he was there I hate to say only nine months, but he was there nine months where some other people were there for a couple of years and he was young and strong, and he wasn't young and strong, he wasn't strong when he came back. But his friend told on him and they came and they got him. So you know, not only did he not have to pay back my grandfather, but he also got rewarded. So he was tried during the Nuremberg trials and they were going to sentence him to death. And then after, like it was just like I don't know, there was some politics involved and he got away. But I think like the next day or two days later he was hit by a truck crossing the street. Yeah, so again you know the perpetrators.

Speaker 2:

What would I have done during that situation? You know, you're in wartime. I don't know what this man's struggles were. I would like to think that he didn't know that they were going to take my grandfather and torture him and do all the things that they did, you know. But I mean, when people are living in war-like situations, like I don't know. I've never lived in a wartime situation, so I don't know what that could be like.

Speaker 2:

So you know, all my life I was like, oh, asshole, you know.

Speaker 2:

But then I started to see things differently.

Speaker 2:

And then I had another, another moment when my father's father left, when my father was nine years old, he, just like my father's father, told on him to his mother and his father said to him you'll never see me again.

Speaker 2:

My grandfather's name was Harry and my husband's name is Harry. So obviously I had to make peace around this and so all my life I grew up hearing that this Harry, my father's father, was this bastard and my father never saw him again. But then, on the field, and I did a constellation with Susie Tucker, another amazing, amazing facilitator, and this guy played Harry, my grandfather and my grandmother. His wife was on the field, my grandma, annie and she's pushing me towards my grandfather this poor guy who was playing my grandfather, had tears running down his face, boogers running down his nose. I mean, this guy was a mess. He's perfect stranger. I did not want to hug him for those two reasons first, because he was, you know this, evil person and second, because I'm kind of a germaphobe, like it was like such a and but all of a sudden, something, something took over me.

Speaker 2:

I hugged him and amazing that I was able to make peace with this bastard, harry, my grandfather. And now he has his rightful place behind me and I call on him for resources because I don't know. I don't know what his dynamic was, I don't know what it was like for him growing up, I don't know what my grandma, annie, was like. I didn't know what it was like being during the world, the depression, having lost a son, having a gambling problem, like I don't know. So it allows me to have some perspective of that and to not judge and to bring in. So yeah, so those are the stories that I tell, I tell my children, I tell people all the time, you know, and it it felt better, felt better than hating him.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and you know we kind of understanding how much the excluded ones in the family take all the oxygen out of the room, right, and they just serve to perpetuate the patterns rather than integrating them and having that resource behind us.

Speaker 1:

So you know, I know that, and you have every reason in the world to continue those patterns. Right, it's like every you know from world war to you know, holocaust to you know, and the complexities of the victims and the perpetrators on different levels, on multiple you know, front and center and very person to person betrayals and then systemic betrayals of persecutions, and you know, just to really understand that we're all, we're all both victims and perpetrators, or we have the capacity for both victimization and being perpetrators. And you know, the more wounded we are, the more those things get amplified. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. It's, so the more those things get amplified. Yes, yeah, absolutely. It's so important to heal those things and have those perpetrators that are in your family take their rightful place behind you, because you know they're there for a reason, and I do owe him life. You know, if he hadn't had my my father then I wouldn't be here today. So, even though he wasn't the most ideal dad for my dad, he was the best dad for him. So yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, wow, yeah, and so you know going, going back a little bit to your point about the amplification of this work, you don't? You and I've talked about Constellation Con. You know doing some, some big conference on constellations.

Speaker 2:

Still have to do it. It's still on my vision board.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you know, I, I'm, I'm all about it. I think that this work really has the, the potential to help heal the world. Right To, to be the, a force that can stop these patterns of destruction. And you know who more appropriate than than your mom and your dad going, you know, being the supporting, you know ancestral powers to these things that that are, that are trying to help, the help prevent these atrocities from happening again. Right, it's just. I think it's such a beautiful homage to you. Know, the fact that your mom was literally smuggled from house to house during world war ii as a baby? Right, it's like, probably one of the hardest things to do is to smuggle a baby not to get, you know, found during persecution. Right, just just the complexities and the depths of how much sacrifice and everything that had to have to happen to that full circle now on a world stage in abu di, having these conversations and being supported by an incredible family and doing all these things, is just it's. You can't make this stuff up, right?

Speaker 2:

No, you can't. My mom says that all the time. You cannot make these sheets up. That's what she says all the time. And you know also, like the amounts of German people that come, I've seen so many German people come to our constellations and they have so much shame and they have so much just ancestral guilt. You know what some of their ancestors did. And to be able to help them release that because that pain certainly is not theirs, you know like they weren't there, and to see them give that back and to understand why their ancestors did what they did. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I mean, we certainly can see it today, like you know, I can certainly see today how people can turn the other way and you know, not want to get involved, and you know you think back then and think, oh, people didn't know there was no social media. We see things happening now in the world Like there's social media. We see it yeah so, um, there's obviously a lot of work to be done there to help heal.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, this, this type of, you know, coming together, community, loving one another, helping one another yeah, and reconciling that we're all victims and perpetrators, right, and that in our lineage, if we go back far, we all come from the same place 100%.

Speaker 1:

Right, and that you know we all have been victims and perpetrators and have repeated patterns. And you know, the thing that's most encouraging is that, little by little, whatever healing modality that you've been involved with is making it better right, because if not, we wouldn't be here. If it stayed the same, we wouldn't be here, we wouldn't be enjoying this incredible technology and talking about this healing modality. So honoring everything that came before is such an integral part of this right, and the ugly stuff too. Like the ugly stuff and the beautiful stuff.

Speaker 2:

You have to embrace it all. Yeah, you have to embrace it all.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, but with that, masha, I think this has been a beautiful conversation.

Speaker 2:

I always love talking to you.

Speaker 1:

Likewise, Likewise. So if you could just kind of, if we could let everybody how to, how to get, let everybody know how to get ahold of you through social media, what's the best way to do that everybody know how to get ahold of you through social media.

Speaker 2:

What's the best way to do that? Sure, so my mom, I manage her social media. It's Missing Link by Michelle. I can give that to you and her website is michellewith2elvesblechnercom. So I follow up with a lot of those different things and we're very accessible, like you can find us definitely just online on social media, and I tell everybody. My mom likes to book her own appointments. So anybody reaches out to me, I give them my mom's cell phone number. She likes to book it because you know she has her card games and she has her things and she likes to be. She told me the other, she told somebody. She's like yes, I'm a control freak, that's just that's who I am. So we book and and I'm starting to do more and more constellations on my own, so you know people can reach out there too, on social media.

Speaker 2:

So always happy to help and my mom has something that's really cool on mondays. It's called urim and it's you could pay but you don't have to. It's like I think like $30 or $35, but it's a group coaching and there's a lot of family consolation. There's a meditation. It's very casual. You could pop in, you could pop out, so we keep that Zoom link always the same. So this way everyone knows that they can find us and they can, that we're there for them and that there's. You know they don't have to worry about financial constraints or anything like that.

Speaker 1:

And that's usually Monday nights right.

Speaker 2:

It's every Monday from 11 to 1 PM.

Speaker 1:

Okay, from 11. Am to 1 PM. Okay, perfect.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah, and do you guys, you could leave your camera off. You can just tune in. You can. You know she, if you send her a little note on the chat saying like I don't want to be called out, she won't call you out. Just you can. You can leave if you need to do it while you're driving. Just something to get you give you like a good boost for the week.

Speaker 1:

And and any big plans for the end of the year? You guys, I heard your mom's coming down in December.

Speaker 2:

Yep. So we're going to be the first week in December we're going to be in Palm Beach for Date with Destiny. Ok. So we're going to be doing groups there. Anyone can join, they can come see us and we have all that information on our on our website and if you sign up for our newsletter and then she's going to be doing a lot of different constellations in Miami with her community that she loves so much, includes you with her community that she loves so much.

Speaker 1:

Includes you and I'm planning on having her back on, so this would be our third, so that would be really exciting to have her on again.

Speaker 2:

I love your interviews. I mean, they're such a gift to me so that I can have them forever.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you, it's been a pleasure, I love your mom so much and you guys are the best. I just really hold a special place with you guys. We really hold a special place with you guys.

Speaker 2:

We love you so we need to do our Family Constellation Con.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we need to do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I'm all in Work on it 2025. 2025, yeah. That's our time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, masha, thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, john, really appreciate it, likewise Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

We'll talk soon. Thanks for tuning in to the Zulu One Podcast. If you found value in today's podcast, please don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Your support means everything to us and thank you for being part of this journey.

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John Acosta

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