ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

06. Are You Carrying Your Mother’s Pain? | Vika De Tyan

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Are you unknowingly carrying emotional pain that isn’t yours? In this powerful episode on ancestral healing, systemic family constellations, and the mother wound, we explore how inherited trauma silently shapes our lives, relationships, and even our sense of self. Through a deeply personal and transformative conversation, Vika De Tyan shares her journey from addiction and depression to wholeness, revealing how systemic healing helped her reconnect with her lineage and uncover the truths buried in silence. Specializing in ancestral trauma and systemic family constellations, Vika offers a rare blend of ancient wisdom and modern therapeutic insight that guides people toward lasting healing. If this conversation resonates with you, drop a comment, subscribe to the channel, and join us in reclaiming what has been lost through generations.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Zulu One Podcast. Today we're joined by Vika Dittan, an ancestral healing practitioner who helps others overcome inherited trauma through systemic family constellations. Her journey from communist Russia to studying with spiritual masters worldwide inspires her work, blending ancient wisdom with modern healing techniques. Enjoy this episode, Bika thank you for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for inviting Honored to be here.

Speaker 1:

I'm very, very happy to you know the fact that we connected and to hear about the systemic work that you're doing and I always love starting with that. And you know, for for the listeners, we started with a guided meditation. That's very, very systemic and, um, it always gets me different, different aspects of it gets me, you know, I have a couple versions of that and what the one that was coming up for me on this one was the excluded ones, very heavily on the excluded ones. I don't know what came up for you on that meditation.

Speaker 2:

When I just started working with my family system, I discovered that my name is the same name of the son of my great-grandfather, who came back from war and was missing for seven years, and my grand-grandma as it was seven years, right Time passed, so she started living with another man and he became the father of her children and when her first husband came back, there was a conflict and they decided in whatever way, I don't know the story that he will leave and he did story that he will live, and he did and he started a new family and his son was named Victor. My full name is Victoria and I never heard of him. I never heard of that part of the family, but he is my blood relative. I am the. My grandfather is his son and I realized that that part of the story was was never mentioned and that was a huge realization for me and I started digging and asking more and there was a lot hidden under that dynamic. So thank you for this meditation.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, thank you for that. That was beautiful and what an interesting story is that you know the secondary and tertiary effects that happen with war, right, that there's these systems and we're all complex systems and you know what a heartbreaking story you know, but also beautiful in some way, that life does go on. And what a gift that he did come back into the system in his own way and then started his own family again. And you know what a what a rich and and heartbreaking but also beautiful story, right that I would imagine that that was a very slow, difficult process to go through. What was that like?

Speaker 2:

slow, difficult process to go through. What was that like? Yeah, it was interesting and I also met some resistance from my family when I started asking questions. It was a lot of why do you need to know? This has been a long time, it doesn't matter, but it did matter for me and I knew that on some level that it did matter for me and it did matter for my body, for my life story, because the reason I started working with it was a deep, deep depression that I couldn't get rid of and I couldn't explain and I didn't know, and just this work was so profound for me. Then, from the first session, I realized that I am carrying it in one way or another and I'm feeling it and life kind of started making sense a little more. It empowered me to go into a deeper journey and discover and search for the answers not far away, in some far away wisdom that was a little foreign to me, but within my family, within myself. That gave me a lot of freedom.

Speaker 1:

So how were you initially exposed to this work? How did it? How did that journey happen? Were you kind of from that, that depression, or the battle with that battle with depression? How did you? How did you get to, to where you are now?

Speaker 2:

so I work with energy in a different way and a feminine way, in the divine, feminine archetypes, for many years. And once the events happen and depression happened and it came with addictions and my way of dealing with it was through substances, a friend who tried to get me out of it invited me to Thailand to go on a yoga retreat and I've been already living the life of a digital nomad for years, ever since I had the chance. And during that retreat there were multiple practitioners invited so we could do the full cleansing mental body cleansing, mind cleansing and one of the practitioners was trained in multiple modalities, in EMDR and hypnosis, in NLP and family constellations as well. So I did a session with him, um for two hours and that really shocked my world. That really changed everything for me. He had Italian ancestry, I have Russian ancestry and the question of war came up very quickly and the consequences of war that were in the body and the conflict they came with it through multiple branches of my family system and I remember that he used pillows to represent um. That was very unfamiliar to me. I knew nothing about um systemic isolation at that point and when I came out of that room I felt quiet that I think I haven't felt since maybe very, very early childhood and that started a search for me to what else is on there and I started asking questions of who is teaching that, how is that available? And he directed me of who is teaching that, how is that available? And he directed me, of course, to the Hellinger School, to the origins, and my life turned around very much and I came to visit my family and started those conversations what was there? And started looking more within and I started using my meditations to go through the ancestry and even going through yoga, right, the process of kundalini rising, and they always told us about grounding. Grounding you have to ground, as this is two-way movement the higher you go, the deeper your roots need to be. And that specific work and I dealt with like my number one request was addictions. I want to work with it and I want to walk through that. I'm at the level when almost life-threatening this is not going to end well and it helped. It really did. It took months to contemplate, to take in and I started working with constellations almost every week and I went into the program and I found my teacher, the teacher I really enjoyed and resonated with and I did a two-years program every week. Every week we did that and through that process, layer by layer, right.

Speaker 2:

And then the second I remember I realized the inner critic changed that voice inside right. And the first time it probably took surprisingly fast, right, because we hear about people going to therapy a long time, but it lasted two years later. I remember talking to the camera, like recording myself on the camera, and then hearing that doubt. It's like oh, is it good enough? Do I look good enough? I'm not sure. And then for the first time I heard the inner critic go what are you talking about? You look great. You never look better. And that was such a little thing, right. It was such a huge shift to have that conversation instead of normal, you know, not so kind voice that I used to for 20, 30 years already. That made a difference for me.

Speaker 1:

That's so interesting that you say that Did that because I've been seeing a lot of inner child work recently. Did that come after the connection with the inner child? I'm curious to know about that.

Speaker 2:

No, inner child work came first. Okay, that was probably the foundation for me. Inner child work came first. Okay, that was probably the foundation for me. Yeah, that that's establishing that connection with the inner child was profound in a similar way because it wasn't known to me before, but once it was there, I think for me it went into, yeah, in a child, then in a critic yeah, once you reconcile, like all the pieces of you, you start getting an alignment and it's like oh yeah, like this is that inner, inner conflict that we have that, you know, wants to keep separate rather than than connecting it's.

Speaker 1:

It's such a such an interesting thing. Man, I know that you, um, you focus heavily on the mother wound and I'm interested to see where that came from. How did you kind of stumble along this focus?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Well, I have a really interesting childhood. On one hand, I think a lot of people think it was great. It was great right. And at the same time, I am a child of divorced parents and when that conflict happened between my parents, the way I received it, it was through my body and I had what later was already diagnosed as psoriasis. It was like a really heavy rush, untreatable rush on the body, and that was one of the things I tried healing and I didn't realize it's what it was until a shaman told me that's what it is. Like you, you just, this is the way you expressing the conflict between parents, and that made sense to me and that was I was still about 13, 14 at that age and that was. I was still about 13, 14 at that age and when I had a chance to run away, I did. I left the country and that's what I was running from and I knew there's a conflict.

Speaker 2:

I think, like Mania was now, because every time there was communication, it was interaction with my biological mother, human mother, right. There was constantly that break, this anger, this burst, this that was well, I don't know if it's right to say that, but at some level that was almost the reason I would drink more, the reason I would take more substances in right, it was so difficult to get over it. It was so and that inner critic sounded like my mom. Definitely. I heard my mom's voice in that and it was through 30s. It was a long time. No matter what achievement, what was happening in my career, what job, what relationship I had, it was constantly that voice. So I knew there's that part and as I was going deeper into systemic constellations I realized there is a, there's a the wound, the wound. Conflict is wrong, the wound, with the father as well. And I learned that one is always connected to another right. But once I started focusing like okay, this is the foundation, right, this is the number one thing. You cannot skip that. I just cannot.

Speaker 2:

And like many, I think, in my generation, started looking for spirituality. I was raised in Christianity, not so strong, because it wasn't, it was USSR. Our religion was politics. We didn't have that right. But technically Christianity. I was baptized and I knew what church is. I knew the teachings of the Bible. I just wasn't forced to practice them actively.

Speaker 2:

But I went into spirituality and kind of blazed another way. There is deeper way and that's the same way of Kundalini rising, but refusing the parents. And I realized that a lot of people around me I lived in spiritual communities. I traveled to Mexico, I lived in Hawaii, I lived in Bali and everybody was in almost every second person that I came across with my parents don't understand me. I don't have my own relationship with my mother. I don't talk about spirituals with my parents, and when I came across systemic constellation, I realized that we're trying to bypass with it and it became so common and so normalized in spiritual communities.

Speaker 2:

It's like, yeah, not the parents, and I wanted to bring it back. I didn't want to skip, I didn't want to bypass, I wanted the ground, I wanted my roots to go deep. I didn't want to say no, no matter what happened in my country, what's happening right now, I didn't want to say I'm running away from it. I wanted to go back and I did. I went back to my parents, I went back to my country and I'm constantly rotating. I'm living that migrational path of living between different countries, but I will never say that I don't want to have anything to do with this.

Speaker 2:

This is no longer my future. It is my future. It's my past and it's my future and it's part of my story, and I feel much more empowered by speaking the full truth of myself. This is my background. This is where I came from. I am very connected. I will never refuse that. That's my story. I'm very grateful for all parts of my story, no matter how difficult and sometimes how goofy and playful it was. I want to embrace all of it and I truly feel that that gave me the right to speak, to be and to live in my truth, to have my business, to stand tall when I speak to people, to be on the side of and have conversations and debates rather than arguments.

Speaker 1:

Man, what an integrative process to say. You know, especially that I'm originally my dad's side of the family from Venezuela. So there's, you know the, you know conflict that comes with that and you know, being from the USSR, I would imagine that that has its. You know its own, you know operating system of trauma that comes with it and conflict. Right, look to spirituality as a jumping of the hard work that they have to do. You know it's like, oh, I'm spiritual and they see it and they're kind of in avoidance and being esoterical and kind of living in the just above ground kind of aspect of it.

Speaker 1:

When you're absolutely right, I say you know, I think you're super onto something that there's a commonality with people that are spiritual, that they don't they reject their parents, right, and then they live in the kind of the step above and almost in a place of judgment that they're like, hey, I'm not like you guys, I do not have the trauma, and where real healing is is that integration of all things, is it can be all of the above and I love that saying it's like it can be that we are both the victim and the perpetrator. We are the everything that came before us and everything that will be that we're connected into a long chain of of history, right, that is here to create, um, to create, to continue life. And so what, what way to get to that? And through the mother wound is just such, you know, because the country that we're from is our motherland as well. And so, how you know, given the history and I recently did a constellation why I'm very interested in this is, you know, somebody was originally from Russia and from the USSR.

Speaker 1:

You know, somebody was originally from Russia and from the USSR because they had some family from Kazakhstan and, you know, from, you know, the, the greater USSR, and I, I got called into the constellation as the Russia's sacrifice is the, the cultural trauma of Russia's sacrifice, and that that had to be talked about in order to reconcile and connect, and connect with the lineage. And so I just um, I know there's a lot of stuff going on, but you know just like what an opportunity for us to heal, to, to create this, this work for, for profound healing yeah, I think one of the lessons and gifts that come with having that heritage, having that ancestry, is we have it in our blood.

Speaker 2:

What happens when we deny the past and build from the ground, like we've done it so many times? Right, like no Tsar, no imperialism anymore, we'll go to communism. And then we did no communism anymore, we're going to capitalism now and there's a lot of trauma that goes through generation to generation now and it's kind of almost the same way of breaking the past, building from the ground. Breaking the past, building from the ground. And now the seeing that, living that in the body, embodying that. I want to turn around, and I think a lot of us are turning around and saying, rather than running away from it, rather than, like you said, turning to your parents and like you guys didn't know, would you be living in fairy tales, you have your trauma. I don't have a trauma. Instead, we can say thank you, thank you for living that. Now your experience allowed me to see and building on top of that with gratitude, I can take it in, embody that and move forward, not pretending that I don't have trauma, but leaving your trauma behind and taking what is for me to work with, because that we have resources for right. I am resourced to walk my path. What I'm not resourced with is to carry on your trauma. That's overwhelming, that's overpowering. That's where that anger, that desperation comes in place. When it's just so difficult and so hard, we feel so powerless. Now we're trying to use substances to overcome it instead of connecting to nature, connecting to the roots, connecting and honoring, because there's a lot of beauty, there's a lot of truth. In my ancestry, in all of our ancestries, there's a lot of rituals that are so connected to the places we live in and when I move and travel and I have been living in the US for many years and that is an important part of my story, I got into my adulthood in that country but I will always carry what's in me from my ancestry and I can bow to it and take the strongest, because there's a lot of strength in Russian history it is a lot of this empowerment that we come in with, authenticity that we come with. There's a lot of gifts each one of us can give to the world and if I own and bow to my ancestry, that will help me to communicate, collaborate with people from Venezuela, people from the US, people from Bali. Maybe, right, bali is taking a lot of people in right now, but remembrance that we all come with something and that something is always in us. It's not just left behind. We can't run away.

Speaker 2:

I tried, I did run away. I tried, I did my part. I tried. In my early 20s. I ran away and there was no smartphones back then, so I didn't call. I didn't want to go back. For two years I didn't visit. I hardly called my parents and that was traumatic for them. It was an adventure for me. Now I'm realizing how traumatic it was to experience and now I don't do that anymore. I don't disappear anymore. I'm there and I stand in that.

Speaker 1:

And that's, you know, just the power of integration, that you can be both right, you can be all the above that we were talking about earlier. And you said something about addiction that I know a lot of people. There's 12-step programs and there's a lot of support out there, but what have you learned about addiction and systemic work and kind of its origins? What has it shed light on?

Speaker 2:

For me it was a lot of suppressed emotions in my family system. It was the, I think the in. If you phrase it in one sentence, it was we must survive. We must survive. I'm not allowed to feel that. I cannot feel that because I have children. I have to move forward. And it was constant. Like if we just take this last three generations right, we know we carry more in our bodies, but if I just look in those three generations, it was we had to survive the war, win the war, recover from the war, build a new regime, make sure it exists and then spread it to the world. And then again revolution, survive the revolution, build a new way of living. It was constant survival mode and there was constant.

Speaker 2:

I'm not allowed to feel all those feelings Plus religion, spirituality, whatever is your way in this community, it is a way to grieve. We didn't have that, we didn't have the socially appropriate way of grieving, so we would just keep it in. We used traditionally, culturally, we used alcohol for it. We gather, we drink and then we start talking or singing Right and through the music. Music. I feel like one of the ways that became really deep and in cultures that experience a lot of conflict, music is playing an important role.

Speaker 1:

It's something that allows us to pronounce what is not allowed to be spoken yeah, yeah, there's, there's, um, you know, if you were to, if I were to describe russian art, it would be beautifully painful, right in literature and music and art. It's just, there's such depth of pain but also beauty in it. So I can completely see where those two things kind of come together.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my other side of the family is from Armenia. My father is Armenian. In Armenia they say they have this instrument, duduk. It's like a flute, but it's made from the apricot tree. They say that God gave duduk to Armenia so the people can cry oh, wow right, so it's every time it's.

Speaker 1:

The tears of the nation are through this instrument man and in so many ways that you know music is a portal to collective right and collective whatever. That is happiness or pain or grief, or you know sadness or joy, or you know the music of a people have just those underlying. You know systemic momentum, for lack of a better term that is calling out what is trying to, what is trying to be. But how do you see? How do you see this, this work transforming countries and social systems? I'm very curious for that that's a great question.

Speaker 2:

That's that's a really great question and I'm working very actively for it to really take place in this, in the organizational level, and I believe that there's a lot of trauma we can heal just from the mother want. And I know this is just the beginning, but it's such an important beginning Our relationship with our mothers, our honoring of life-giving force. And we're talking about mother right. We start biological mother, but there's mother nature, right. We saw many of us refer to this mother nature and honoring Mother Nature. How would that transform our societies? How would that transform the collective? That's just one part of it, one little but very, very important part of it. A few years ago, I wrote a blog that said how do we stop the war? And that's what I wrote about. I wrote about the mother wound.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's our first connection right and we know from systemic work how important the connection to mother, the connection to source, you know that connection to our lineage and how, because you know mothers literally carry us in their bodies right that, how much a disconnection and that can repeat in the family system and people don't really understand what a mother wound is and they don't. If you had to, you know, kind of put it in broad terms, what would? What would the mother wound look like or show up in somebody's life like?

Speaker 2:

Well, I want to first name this when I say mother wound and I, the unconditional, soul-deep connection, soul-deep love between the mother and the child. That is just unbreakable and the need of the child to have mother love and the soul level of the mother to give that love to the child. And I always say the soul level. On a soul level, the parent always wants the best for the children and the capacity, when it can be given on a human level or whatever block that stands in between mother and child, that's the wound, that's the part that hides that love. But that love is unbreakable, it's always going to be there. There, in a little different words, is like, for example, if we say what I did not receive from my mother, I demand from my partner.

Speaker 1:

That's a very good point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, what I did not receive from my mother, I may demand from my work, from my job, even from my boss, from my mother. I may demand from my work, from my job, even from my boss, from my therapist. How do we dictate to that? We want, we crave it so much, we want to go and we want to place our therapist, our boss, our manager, our partner onto her place. And then now they are the ones and we are demanding it together.

Speaker 2:

In more mundane way, it could be people pleasing, yeah, it could be rough inner dialogue. It could be the same addictions. It could be so many ways. There are so many ways we express it through inability to make money, inability to receive money right. It's why, when it's like make money, it's like make is the wrong word. Receive money, receive abundance in whatever way it comes to us, because there is anger towards right. I want to direct that you didn't give me enough and then will judge. I think one of the biggest quotes that I use and I resonate with a lot, when Bert Hellinger said money, life and mother are similar energies, the way we treat our mother is the way life treats us.

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm John from the Zulu One podcast. If you like what you're hearing and it resonates with you, please consider becoming a monthly supporter. The link is below Thanks, A lot of pop culture right now, or pop psychology, is talking about, you know, narcissists and it's like, oh, my mother was a narcissist or my father was a narcissist and you know, one of the things that I talk to people about when I'm facilitating is that your mother, in the here and now, you may have a difficult relationship with her. You can bow to the meta connected version of her right. How do you navigate that dynamic?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's another quote from my teacher and I think Bert also said something similar to it, but it was whatever we judge, we reject, right. So if I judge my mother, I reject, life rejects me. That's interesting circle. Yes, we work when mother human, biological mother is not available. For this connection there's a lot to work with going backwards. But we work with the soul and I think one of the ways that people really get it regardless if you have children or not, biological children or not, your job is your baby. Maybe you give in a different way.

Speaker 2:

But if you have a child and you imagine, imagine the child is suffering your trauma and they subconsciously that's part of the mother wound the bond between the child and the mother is so strong that the child subconsciously says I'll suffer for you, I'll take in your trauma, as if that somehow would take it away from you. Imagine your child tells you I'll suffer for you. What does it cost anybody? Right, how heavy it feels? It's immediately going into please, please don't, please don't. I'll take it, I'll handle it.

Speaker 2:

When we stand in the field, when we work with the constellations, it is extremely painful to give your trauma to your child, to consciously pass on this heaviness to your child. On this heaviness to your child, we find it every time the only way. When the soul of the mother does not give love to a child and when she has the death wish she wants to die in some way, for whatever reason. And the child is picking up on that and subconsciously saying I'm just like you. Right, because the child's love love me because I'm just like you. So that love says I will want to die too. I will die for you, I'll die with you, so you will love me. That's the mother wound. I love you so much, I'll die for you.

Speaker 1:

It's so interesting that you said you know people, that you know even people that didn't have children, that our product is our children as well, that our work or our businesses or the projects that we're involved with take on that same energy in some way right, that they take on this repeated pattern that is not only with your children. That is, everything that you produce out of life, out of love, will carry these burdens, out of loyalty. Just such a you know, such an interesting perspective and I love how you put it so simply. Such an interesting perspective and I love how you put it so simply and so concisely for people.

Speaker 1:

And it's the first step, right, and I did some work with Mark Wallen many years ago and he was doing a lot of work with the mother wound and a lot of the constellations were simply somebody sitting in the chair and if there was a disconnection from mom when they were young, it was simply mom getting closer and getting closer and getting closer and then just connecting and I was like it was just, it was so quiet and so profound and just recreating that connection.

Speaker 1:

Because you may not you may, you know, ideally have a great relationship with mom, right, but she got sick, or it was a really difficult pregnancy and she had to be separated from the child. For you know X, y, z, many reasons, right, or you know there could have been many, many stories that happened. And just simply recognizing that connection and understanding your, you know your birth story, or if you were adopted, or if you had to emigrate or had to, there was war or there was conflict, or you know something that was going on, that how that pattern can manifest in your life over and over, and over and over again and over again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think another very powerful healing and what you shared is absolutely just quietly walking, and for so many of us it's it's a very difficult journey, step by step, walking to mom, and there's another angle that may be healing. Healing, mom, I know you would give me more love if you could, if you received it from your mother, opening yourself to that. If you could, I know I know you would have. I know that you had trauma.

Speaker 2:

It's easier said than done, like we mentally understand. We know that if there was a conflict it was an abuse. We know that she wasn't happy, right, nobody abuses their children when they're happy. But, understanding it, people have this tendency oh, forgive her, I forgive her right. And that's not the way of healing. That's not how we do in family consultations. In ancestral healing there's no forgiving your mother, right, it's embracing and that little phrase of just those words may shift a little bit to create an opening, may shift a little bit to create an opening and in that opening we can work with more embrace, more healing. I know you would, I know you would, if you could, I know you would give it to me and by honoring myself, I honor you. By honoring myself. I honor you by giving love to myself.

Speaker 1:

I honor your life story. Yeah, that in your honor I will succeed.

Speaker 2:

In your honor, I will succeed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely, that's absolutely, and bless me if I choose to do it differently, right?

Speaker 1:

Please bless me if I choose to do it differently. It's just such a profound statement of connection rather than judgment, right and I and you know that concept of forgiveness. I've talked about it in a couple podcasts. It's like that concept of forgiveness like first you have to judge and then absolve right and forgiveness. It's like we're no one to forgive. That's between you and your creator, you know, rather than it being. You know this, this, this righteousness that comes with with forgiveness. You know?

Speaker 2:

yeah, because I forgive right.

Speaker 1:

I'm big enough to forgive what a great being I am yeah, it's all ego, right, and you know this work is just how to right size is right size ego. You know some people are like I want to kill the ego. It's like no ego helps you navigate the world right, but having an oversized one is what gets you in trouble right and and repeats those patterns. And you know one thing that I that I learned early on is that it's a. It's a, it's an active ego to carry things for our parents. It's that you're the small one and I'm the big one, so I will carry this for you. It's like oh.

Speaker 1:

When I heard that, I was like oh, man, that hit me pretty hard. That one hit me pretty hard because I understood that it only makes me the martyr and you know the one that's carrying this burden for the family. You know that it gives me purpose in some way that, rather than saying like, the real assumption of responsibility is that statement of in your honor, I will succeed To navigate the unknown, to assume full responsibility of, of taking your future into your own hands, with the support of your ancestors, in your rightful position and there's this bigness that comes with I'm.

Speaker 2:

I'm healing, right like I'm, I'm the one who break the chains, I am the one, like you guys couldn't, and I'm gonna do it for you, right this?

Speaker 2:

And it comes with this rightfulness, right Like it, almost like you're speaking for the whole ancestor, you're speaking with all those you're presenting, like you couldn't take it for, just for your love. It's difficult to express, to take in that self-love right and care for this. But if I'm standing with a crowd and I'm doing it for the crowd of people, how right am I, how big. And it takes bravery to give that up, to be more humble and say I'm just me, I'm the child of my parents, the grandchild of my grandparents, and put yourself back into that. When we are that big and we talk to what should be equal to us, our partners, and we feel like I am always right because I have all this behind me, it's like no, I'm, I'm humble. I think that's maybe why so many spiritual teachings and religions teach us to be humble. To be humble, to come back into you're, the child of creation. Take that place and it comes with empowerment and in response, we get the resources to walk our path.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so what do you see kind of the future of your work looking like? What does a couple of years down the road look like?

Speaker 2:

great question. I really walk towards um working with, uh business people. Like you said, when you, when you, when your project is your child, right, then we, hopefully we walk through the. We know mother wound is a lifelong journey, father wound is a lifelong journey, but there's more capacity opens up when we step out of that victim and now we're the creator, right. But when, before you do the business, if you have this mother wound, if you have this unsolved relationships, you're going to, you're going to put it on your business right. You're going to keep on bringing it in and demanding the business or being angry at business, or expecting the business to be or keep failing, not being able to receive, not being able to put the right price for the product, to open yourself to that as well, to bring the impact. And I feel that there's a ripple effect that we can do. I truly believe that it's very empowering to walk the path of entrepreneurship and experience all because, right as as as we do that it's every hidden dynamic all of a sudden is not so hidden.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, it shows up right there You're taking on. You're kind of like coming out of this stroller when the life is almost like somebody else's karma, somebody else's thing, and now you're like, okay, okay, so making that step boom in the face.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, here's your ancestry.

Speaker 2:

Here's your block, here's your non-ability to receive, non-ability to embrace right, here's where you're stepping into victimhood. Here's a dual I need with the perpetrator and it's kind of like constantly goes tick-tock in your heart and creating the whole structure. And once we're able to put in our own destiny, our own ability to choose right or maybe destiny is somebody associated with, something is decided for me, but our ability to make a choice while paying gratitude how difficult, different the businesses would be if every step would make would turn around and say thank you to those who came before us, with respect, with gratitude, and move forward. Not, I know better. Oh, this is a new way, this is innovating with like all you did was wrong and now we're doing it. Every time we walk right, Instead of thinking like they didn't know, I know more now. Thinking like they didn't know, I know more now, I know better now, saying like, okay, thank you, Because of you, because of what I may consider as mistake, but hopefully not because of the steps that you walked, I can jump on it and, rather than chasing after the next new thing, new thing, new thing, denying what was before, creating more and more garbage right, More and more destruction, in harmony and move towards harmony, move towards the cycles, working with the cycles of nature, working in collaboration, realizing right in modern nature. Back to the same thing. I cannot work without having that behind my shoulders all the time.

Speaker 2:

That is part of what I consider with every move that I make. It's not and, if I want, it's not chasing the money, getting more money. It's opening to receiving the abundance coming in. It's a different way of building your business, and I truly believe that business and family are not two different things. They're the same thing. Right, we're coming within that, and if I'm creating business but I'm ashamed to tell my children about it, I'm maybe not doing the things I want to create. And if it creates more waste than the product and if there's no way of circling in, that is not sustainable. That is not the way I'm honoring. What I'm working towards is this synchronous, harmonious co-creation, and for that the first step is stepping into creator, out of the victim into the creator, and then, the more we have, the more we're able to create organizations that will work from that in mind. My background is transformational travel. That's where I come from.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So for me, that's been on my radar for a while and choosing the way of coming back and bringing knowledge and wisdom, rather than escaping and living the destruction and coming back with just Ooh. Okay, I relax for a little bit Now I can continue the chase, continue, continue this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

That is, that is the the intention. I want to say the goal, but that's not the goal I'm living in. So that's the intention of spreading that more of that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love you know so I'm. I'm big into family and to systems, right, and so that's the intention of spreading that more of that. The conversation transforms when I'm talking to facilitators from family, which is very tender, very soft, and then you start in on the system side. It's like let's get to work. You know we got these things and like you can really, you know, get into the gears and the mechanisms that propel businesses towards connection and it's just such a, it's such a such an effective way of managing an organization is you can really look at it and have the tenderness of family constellations but with the effectiveness of of systemic constellations is such a such a cool way.

Speaker 1:

I wish everybody did this. You know that there was educational platforms all over the world that was saying, hey, you can do this with governments, you can do this with businesses, you can do this with non-for-profits, you can do this with, and imagine the world that we would create if we constantly integrated systemic consolation principles into everything that we did. So, man, I love that you're focused on that side. That's what I love about systemic consolations is you can really apply it to become a force multiplier for connection rather than destruction.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, there are some schools there, right, there are a few schools in the world who work using systemic installation and it's beautiful and I wish more and more of that come to the world. And children are definitely beautiful creatures to work with using systemic installations and there's business and I think part of it beautiful creatures to work with using systemic installations, and there's business and I think part of it. It's also a little bit of experience coming from those um spiritual communities, right, um, living, being in it. There is wound around money as well. There's this wounded healer, right. So it's almost we just coming out of that um stage when money was forbidden, like sex and money are not spiritual, and we just started like actually, no, actually there's a lot of spirituality and spiritual power and empowerment in both of this. And receiving and wounded healer like not doing the work for free, giving it for free, not being able to live sustainably and doing something you hate and doing that as a hobby.

Speaker 2:

Is that the way you want the communities to be built? Is that how we have the technology? We have so much already spread that we're able to leverage that work to create the communities that they build around it, to bring back the value of gentle and efficient right. It doesn't have to be either or, like you said, we can do both. It's that union, that non-duality, that dance of feminine and masculine that go within, that don't have to choose that one dependent and other way interdependent. We now know that. We have the science got to it. We no longer have that conflict between science and spirituality. They're so close, they're so merging together, and we have the technology to allow us to spread it, to ripple it with such efficiency. So what if we marry all that, what if we bring that all together? What kind of world will that be?

Speaker 1:

looming thing over our heads with. You know, ai, that's coming in, and you know I've said this a couple times already but I think the next phase is that integration, that exact integration that you're talking about, that there's a dark matter, morphic resonance, whatever you want to call systemic entanglement, whatever you want to call that that thing that connects, connects all pieces of a system that we're going to just we're at the precipice of discovering that and that we can actually work on it, that there's a way to effectively heal it connected, unentangle it and create systems that have incredible momentum. That what's the difference between a business that you would say that is, you know what people would can eventually call evil and a business that is truly connected, or that that treats their employees right and birds of a feather flock together and they all come to to create this, this um place where it it fosters connection and abundance and momentum, rather than disconnection and repeating the old destruction that you were talking about before.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think the part that needs to be worked on the most is that permission, and that's part of the mother-wanted self. I had permission for that to emerge, permission for that to happen, permission to walk towards, permission to not plug into the victim-perpetrator, not plug into the anger, into the conflict, permission to stand in your inner truth, permission to be and not resist, not reject. We have technology is also a really interesting topic, right, and I'm going to speak to that a little bit and I want to speak on why I chose family constellations specifically after trying so many. Technology is part where we're either addicted to it or we resist it, reject it. It's very rare when somebody goes in and is like, yes, I have a very harmonious relationship, I use it for my business, but I know as soon as I'm done, I put it down and I went and I disconnected. I'm lucky. Some lucky of us have that relationship, but for the most of us, either I'm constantly in it or I'm afraid of it. I have fear, especially artificial intelligence, right. I don't want to deal. It scares me, it's just, it's wrong way for the humanity to develop. I'm going to completely disconnect and just pretend it doesn't exist. I wish neither one of those fields are obvious. Neither one of us moves us forward.

Speaker 2:

And another part is when working with energy. So meditation, it takes time, it takes opening, it takes structure. It's a lot of spirituality specifically received by that. Some of that we know. Ayahuasca, the other medicine, it takes bravery to walk into that. Family constellations is one of the very few modalities in which you don't need anything, any prerequisite, to walk into and it's so undeniable when you have other people reflect. You don't talk stories, right, we don't tell that happened and then that happened and then that happened. No, you just open the space, you give that permission in simple words and simple intention, and you see and you resonate and you feel right. You know the beauty of it yeah and it's undeniable it's undeniable.

Speaker 1:

It's undeniable, it's just, it's. It's truer than true. It's like seeing it's. It's like it's. It's at night. It's undeniable that it's dark out and it's undeniable that it's light out when you see the pattern where the system emerged in the constellation, it's truer than true. It's the base of reality.

Speaker 2:

It seems like yeah, and you don't need the guru to tell you that you don't need the teaching to that, you just need to show up and that's it. You that you don't need the teaching to that, you just need to show up and that's it. And I feel so much power in that mentality because of it, because if we just show, when we show, it's so out there that you can feel it and through you you can bring it to others. Right, and we have this, it's so. I'm obsessed with it. Honestly, just talking about being with it, stepping into it, it's the. My whole walk is like people cry it, that's it. I don't need to convince you, I don't need to tell you how it is or what it, what would and what you will feel it. You feel it and that's enough. And that's your, your wisdom, that comes from within you.

Speaker 2:

Nobody else is needed. There's no church you have to go and listen to. There's nothing else that you need to happen. There's no substance you need to take. There's no shaman that needs to jump around you. None of that is necessary. You can sing, you can speak, you can use sage. You can use other tools, but they're optional. Everything else that you need is already here.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and I tell a lot of people it's like it's not multi-level marketing. You don't have to join a club, you don't have to get to different levels, you don't have to join a religion, you don't have to join a cult, you don't have to join anything. You can do one and be completely done with it, or do it you know and understand the work and use it as a modality through your life. It's doesn't, it's like karate or yoga, it's like it's. It's just a practice and you, you use it as a methodology to figure some stuff out, and then you don't, and if anybody tells you otherwise, turn around and run away because they're using it for nefarious reasons. And that's what I and you're so right, that's why I'm so.

Speaker 1:

I think obsessed is the right word. Right Is that I'm so dedicated to this work? Because it doesn't. You know, you don't have to, there's no convincing. You just have to see it and it will be a thing and you'll be on the other side of the chasm. And then you kind of see the forest for the trees and you see the patterns and you start being like, oh, why am I entangled in this dynamic? What, what learned? What lesson have I not learned before that I need to deal with now and work through and figure out how to give this back to where it actually belongs. That's it just so beautiful, you know. It's so beautifully elegant.

Speaker 2:

And it incorporates the ego as a friend, not as something to remove or break or kill. So integrational, I love that. I think the word would be devoted. I'm devoted to this work. I'm devoted. When I first came across that it blew my mind really. It was like why don't we teach it in schools? Why don't we tell everyone that's what it is? How is it not a common knowledge? And then I got into gratitude that I'm living in times when we are on the edge of that and it's up to us to spread it.

Speaker 2:

It yeah they just don't have to pick it up. I can. I can be the one among the ones who shine the light inside here.

Speaker 1:

If you want it, it's here and the, the systemic resistance factor from a systemic constellations perspective is really, really interesting. You see, you know people that are like, hey, I'm gonna go do a constellation. And then you know they had a flat tire and their dog got sick and the dog threw up all over the place. Or you know their kid something happened with the child. Or you know they woke up late.

Speaker 1:

Or you know, whatever life throws at you to keep the system the same, and people, it gives them great excuses. You know it's like, oh, my mom called and she was sick, and then like all the everybody will play their part in the system to keep it the same. And the same thing with business is like, oh, there'll be an emergency and there'll be a thing. And they're like every life will throw you all the exclusive, all the excuses to keep, and that, that, that systemic resistance, is the clue of the power of the system, of the. You know how entrenched that dynamic is in the field. Right, it's like just like, ah, that's why I need to do this work.

Speaker 2:

It's interesting, you brought it up. I was talking to my sister recently and I was trying to convince her like no, it wasn't the first time, like multiple times she was telling me about the issue with her health, with her joints, and I was talking to her and it's like why did you try it? Why didn't you go? And it's like always her answer is no, no, no, I don't need it, it's not, that's not for me, I, I don't know, I, that's not, I'm not gonna go. And then the final is like, okay, I really want to understand, tell me why not, why wouldn't you go to that? And that's what? What do you call it Systemic? Yes, you have it.

Speaker 2:

And there's also mental resistance, right. And she told me things like oh, I get it. She said I know I'm not, I know what is wrong, I know that I need to change my job, I'm doing the thing that I don't like, I know that this, my marriage, is probably not right for me anymore and I'm afraid it will show me that and I will have no excuses not to change oh, that is, that is profound right and it's funny thing and I remember I was contemplating in it and I came up with this, but the the the thought came with how success stops us from healing, from truly enjoying our life.

Speaker 2:

we see all successful in specific way, like I have a, I cannot. I'm successful in my marriage. I cannot give it up. Or I have this job. It's comfortable, it's secure, it gives me money, it's. I don't want to give it up. I know if I go into onto this healing path it will. It will take it away from me. Wow, and I really wanted to bring that.

Speaker 2:

Part of you have a choice. We have a choice. We have a choice. There's this secondary benefit, right, Every disease has a secondary benefit. If we have it, some part of us wants it. And there's a dialogue, right. This is the power of our human beings, the creative power of I can choose in which way, in how do I satisfy the deep craving, the deep need that I have? I can choose. I can choose to still go on with that disease if I want to.

Speaker 2:

People have cancers realize that that's about the not forgiveness that they experience and they still choose cancer. We have the right to choose. We are the creators. But you're no longer in the victim of it. You're no longer the victim of cancer, You're no longer the victim of disease. You're the one who chose it. So if you choose that, it's your right. You may choose otherwise. You may give up your job in exchange for something unknown. Yes, it takes bravery. Yes, it's difficult. Yes, there's a specific energy input right that's required to jump from that to overcome that systemic resistance. There is a free will. We have that.

Speaker 1:

We are the great humans. Yeah, we have that. We are the great humans. Yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 1:

I think you posted a short that was the opposite of victim is creator and that just resonated with me so much. It's like the opposite of victim isn't perpetrator, the opposite of a victim is the creator. Right, it's like really to look at it from that and it's just like, like you and you said that a couple of times and I'm like it's you're, you're so right, you know, the opposite of the victim is the creator, is the, the. The creator steps in responsibility, right, and and you know Michelle Blechner talks about this a lot and I love her how she talks about words as responsibility is the ability to respond, not to be stuck in the trauma, right in the unresolved trauma, and that's like ah man, what, oh? That. That really puts things in perspective. To say the opposite of a victim is a creator, you know, gives you the authority, the to the, you know the authoring of your life, rather than being somebody, that things just simply happen to, life just simply happens to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And then just in this simple invitation right to go. What if it's not necessarily this is what it is? What if? Is it beneficial for you to adapt and believe? And if it is not? If it is beneficial, why don't you? Why don't you try that like inviting people to that? What if you step at the creator? What if life happens for you, always, always? How does your life change that little shift?

Speaker 1:

wow, because that this has has been an incredible conversation and I think that's a great place to wrap it up. I'd love to have you back. If people want to get a hold of you, how do they do that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, oh, facebook is the easiest way. Probably. Vika D Chan is where they can find me. My website is ancestral-alchemy. That's maybe also easy, but I'm open for conversations. If you find me on Facebook, please connect and I would love to chat. And thank you so much, john, for inviting.

Speaker 1:

Mika, thank you so much. This has been beautiful, very much appreciated, and love the systemic work and love what you're doing. So if you ever need support or if you ever want to come back and talk about something you're doing, so if you ever need support or if you ever want to come back and talk about something you're doing, we'd love to have you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, very grateful for your podcast and spreading the knowledge rippling the healing through all the world. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

The least that I can do, thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Zulu One podcast. If you found value in today's podcast, please don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Your support means everything to us and thank you for being part of this journey.

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John Acosta

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