ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

09. Healing the Family Wounds You Didn’t Cause | Gary Stuart

• ZuluOne • Episode 9

Share episode

Send us a text

Gary F. Stuart is a renowned facilitator and trainer with over 27 years of experience in Master Constellation 'Ancestral Intelligence,' double-certified by Heinz Stark and Bert Hellinger. He is a six-time bestselling author on Amazon, known for his ground-breaking books on Ancestral Intelligence and Quantum Activation, co-authored with Amit Goswami. His noteworthy publications also include Healing Human History, Raising YOUR Harmonious Child, Many Hearts, ONE SOUL, and Master YOUR Universe. Outside of writing, Gary operates two websites, AncestralIntelligence.com and GaryStuartHealing.com, that serve as platforms for his healing work and teachings.


Find more from Gary:

Ancestral Intelligence: www.AncestralIntelligence.com

Gary Stuart Healing: www.GaryStuartHealing.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/REALGaryStuart/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-stuart-9534b01a/

X: https://x.com/GaryStuartLIVE

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/garystuartlive/


Support the ZuluOne Podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/892585/support


Find more from us:

Website: https://www.zuluone.org/

Substack: https://johnacosta.substack.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zuluonepodcast/?hl=en

X: https://x.com/jaykaboomboom

Support the show

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the podcast. Today I sit down with Gary F Stewart, an expert in ancestral intelligence and family constellations. We explore how our past shapes us and how we can start to heal. We discuss why people hold on to trauma, the power of small healing steps and finding wisdom in even the hardest parts of our upbringing. Thank you so, gary, tell me a little bit about um. You know I've I've followed your, your work and I've seen you in the constellation community for a long time and tell me a little bit about how you kind of first stumbled across, uh, family constellations and this modality.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, I had given up stand-up comedy. I moved from Boston to LA because I was frustrated not getting discovered in Boston. I didn't know I was getting a PhD in public speaking. But you know, you don't see the forest for the trees of the bigger plan in your life, you know, until you live through it. And then you look back. And then I gave it up and I had a lot of anxiety about getting into the healing arts. But you know, being in the restaurant business slash stand up comic nights restaurant by day we'd give each other massage. Everyone said I had the best touch and blah, blah, blah. So I decided to give up stand up comedy. I said, well, let me just call a massage school. And they had morning classes, monday, wednesday, friday. And then I went to my one to 10 pm shift at the restaurant a mile away and I said, well, this is hand in glove. So you know, that went great.

Speaker 2:

But what I noticed when I was touching people, I was getting all this information. Now I hadn't heard about constellations at all and I said where is this information coming? It's the same field that guides me. You know, whether you call it Burt's field or your greater consciousness, there's stuff guiding us all the time, but do we stop and listen to what it's trying to tell us? So I've, I've found when I was massaging people I would get okay, they need to hear about this. I get like a headline, like the front page headline their, their shoulder problem is about guilt. So talk to them about guilt and I say, okay, I have an hour to figure out how I can approach guilt in their shoulder issue, you know, or pelvis, or wherever they had their pain.

Speaker 2:

And then I'd say, oh, is there anything you feel guilty about? Oh my God, why did you ask? I said I'm just picking up on it. And then we'd kind of have a cathartic discussion while they were getting nurtured on their body.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, so this is going to be an odd question, yeah that's fine. Did you find comedy to be intuitive that you almost discovered, as you do in a facilitation of a consolation? Do you find a joke? It discovers itself. It reveals itself almost like an insight in a family conversation Is that? Is that similar?

Speaker 2:

Oh, same thing. I think all creativity is like that. I mean, like Keith Richards, I'm a big Rolling Stones fan before your time. But he said, you know, he just woke up from a dream, you know with, start me up, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah dah. So he had a recorder. He said da-da-da, da-da-da. Then when he woke up the next day, he had Chris Martin of Coldplay, who I'm a fan of. He said this song just floated into my consciousness and I wrote it down.

Speaker 2:

So where does all that come from? You know, like the Beatles writing all the albums and songs they did in like what? Less than 10 years. It's like what creative thing is floating down from the heavens and I've done shamanic work and from ayahuasca to mushrooms and everything. And one of my first experiences I saw words floating down. I think this was before the Matrix in the 90s, but words were floating down in different combinations and I was laughing hysterically. So if you put this word and that word juxtaposed, it's really comical but it's very deep at the same time. So I felt like somehow this incarnation I was dealing with language and communication and writing Started out as comedy but then led to me being an author. I think I'm working on my 14th book now and I love communicating. Whether people read it or not, I just put my heart and soul into everything I do for the betterment of humanity and to conceptualize.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's. You know what you're saying about. You know the creative process really resonates with me. I write music. You can see the guitar.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

You know, I write music and I and I found that I don't write songs. I find them in some way. I find them in the neck of the guitar, and then the same thing with comedy is like the comedy is almost in between, it's like a profound truth that are in between. You know, kind of like the pillars of conversation or the or the boulders, or tectonic plates of conversation in life. You suddenly hit this, like all the things align and you suddenly, you know, get something through.

Speaker 2:

And you know as as you, I would imagine that you know this that true comedy is is profound truth made in a funny way, right, and so like really resonates with people. Yeah, so it's palatable, or? They reject it because it's like they don't want to go there.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you said that blah, blah, blah, you know.

Speaker 2:

I mean one common theme would be like how can the Catholic church who's abstinent rule birth control?

Speaker 2:

and sexuality I mean so I would always point out the hypocrisy of the two opposing thoughts. Einstein said the definition of a genius is for anybody's brain or mind told. True, with opposing thoughts simultaneously, that makes sense. And with constellations, here we have the client with us, suffering, and they say they come from a perpetrator-oriented family system. Well, they wouldn't be here without that. So there's the huge conundrum they wouldn't exist if that didn't happen. So I think, with Bert's teachings, why are we throwing the baby out with the bathwater? You're here because it happened. May not have been ideal, but you wouldn't be here otherwise. So can we see the gift?

Speaker 2:

One of my first theories on my first book. I call it gifts in the garbage. It's like underneath all that trauma and debris of what we all had to do to survive Number one, they were teaching us survival skills to survive our own family system, like they did and the ancestors did. So it's all trickled down from that and underneath all that is the pearl of wisdom or the gift, and I feel consolations. Get us to the place to receive the gift of life the way it came to us, rather than saying it should be wrapped in the perfect bow and the perfect wrapping. 99 and 99, 100 people had a rough time in their life.

Speaker 1:

And that's such good insight to say that you you know gifts in the garbage or there is a diamond in the rough or whatever that looks exactly. Yeah, you can then you and you can approach it from a place of gratitude and connection, right, rather than being oh, woe is me, this is my, my ideology, that the only thing that it does it's perpetuates, perpetuates the pattern of pain, right?

Speaker 2:

and the danger with constellations. Just to be perfectly honest, what I see, there's what I call. We did a conference in Colorado, the last conference we had, and my fear is that with the newer people coming up, they're going to be trauma worshipers or they're not going beyond duality Like, yes, you had a bad like psychotherapists, I'm the good parent. You had a bad like psychotherapists, I'm the good parent. You had a bad father, a bad, and that all may be true, but you have to find the goodness in what was and realize any. Like you know, I was a severely battered child and then my first cousin told me what his father went through with my father, his boys, with my grandfather, and I can't believe how my great grandfather, who I never met, must have mutilated my grandfather to have physical violence be the best thing he could do to his sons.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. And that's like you know people have stories and you know they have the stories that they're stuck in and you can always go back in that principle. You can always go back and just simply say thank you for giving me life.

Speaker 2:

Right, exactly Right, and so underneath it's like under the radar.

Speaker 1:

Under the radar, exactly, and that's such a that's such an interesting concept that you, that you bring up, that your fear is that people, people will like trauma worship in some way, and that they weaponize almost pop culture right Psychological conversations and say, oh, my trauma is my, you know identity. And then you continue down that path and you know I. Just that's why I'm such a big fan of consolations. It's such an effective process to work through that armor that people hold.

Speaker 1:

Right and it has profound truth in it. There's no other way of getting through it than the profound truth that's in the system Right.

Speaker 2:

If they let it happen, like some people, there's therapeutic resistance and I have some clients that they identify, let's say, a young lady who is incestuous by her brother, father, neighbor, whatever they're so identified in being a sex abuse victim that they wouldn't know who they would be without it. So a lot of people it's going to sound crazy, but there's a comfort zone in the devil, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's actually scarier to let that go and say, okay, you know, even with Jewish people in the Holocaust, yes, that happened, yes, it was horrible. And I discovered 15 years after my mother's death that a big family secret came out, that she was secretly Jewish and she didn't even know it in her lifetime. And so people identify with that and I say, well, what if you could be the first happy Jew that wasn't persecuted or put in a concentration camp? And you being happy in the 21st century means that all that suffering wasn't in vain. Somebody can be Jewish and non-persecuted, not identify as a Dachau or Auschwitz victim, but I'm a Jew, no one's persecuting me and I'm going to have a happy life in the memory of those who got burned in an oven.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think the wandering in the desert for 40 years is that right the, you know, after the oppression of.

Speaker 1:

You know pharaoh's oppression of of the. You know the people of israel, right, and then wandering in the desert. Is that you know you and I experienced this in constellations a lot of times is that when I have a profound movement, I'm a bit lost. For a couple, there's a time that I'm molting. You know I've taken off that old. You know shell and shell and I'm vulnerable and I'm I'm like susceptible and I'm feeling all these things that I hadn't been feeling and I've and I put away for a long time. And you're kind of in that, in that liminal space between where you're going and where you were Right.

Speaker 1:

And so like it's such a cool way that you're you're putting it to say like this can happen in culture and in systems as well, it can happen in people, right? So I love, I love how you, how you put that in there to say not to blame the victim, but to give it's a profound empowerment of that position, to say you can actually do something about it right and some people won't take that, so don't forget.

Speaker 2:

now another kind of insidious thing Hate to be the devil's advocate here.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:

There becomes a loyalty to suffering. So I've had Jewish families where the sister represented sexual abuse by their brother. Stuff like that happened in a Jewish family. So you could say that the brother represented the Nazi perpetrators and the sister represented the Jewish victims in one or two generations after the Holocaust, where they had their roots in Germany during World War II. And it's like and what Hellinger found, which I think is brilliant that kind of the template of what was established in one generation crosses into the next. Then they're acting out the same drama with different characters. But one person say I'll represent all the victims who are unseen and unspoken. I'll represent the nasty Nazi perpetrators of the SS who invaded my family system. And so then you have to extricate them from that, if they'll allow it. And it's absolutely fascinating. I mean, we're watching family history and human history transform before our eyes and there's no more of a sacred place to be, to be a facilitator for that, even if the client is resistance. I honor their resistance. I never reject them.

Speaker 2:

I say just sit with it. In time Things will start to make sense.

Speaker 1:

And that's a really good point because, like you know, one of the things that I do as a facilitator is like today we took a small step towards healing. You know it's like, and that small step may, in two years or 18 months or 12 months down the road, that they can be open to another movement Right. And then you can do this slow shipping, slow movement of the ship Right that shifted to one, one degree or a quarter of a degree one way, and then 10 years, 20 years on the line, exactly, completely different place.

Speaker 2:

And that that's one regret I have, because we don't do. You know, I'm not a big organization that does follow upup stuff 5, 10, 20 years later. But Bert even said that a lot. He said I'll never see the results of what I'm doing here. I won't be alive to see the positive results that I impacted people with. But all I know which touches my heart, he said I'm improving the future of this family system and that family system might have a better life there. Their kids will have a better life. You know, the culture will have a better culture because of the work we do.

Speaker 2:

And um, heinz Stark was also my first teacher. Uh, he was kind of a protege of Hellinger in Germany. We brought him to LA to train about 20 of us and um, and many didn't take it professionally but only five of us took it up professionally and I was a duck to water so I loved it or whatever. But you know we won't see the results of the income and the thing is not to fill our ego like I heal this and there blah, blah, blah. It's like hey, we did our best in that moment in time and we don't know where life is going to take and we have to accept. You know, it's like how many doctors Western MDs would do surgery and never see the patient again after an appendicitis or a kidney transplant. But they know that person's alive for decades. After that, one hour in the operating room. Same thing, with constellations.

Speaker 1:

So how did how did you get connect? How did that connection happen? Because you know the comedy scene in Boston during when you're coming up was probably pretty rough, right. It was like kind of wild and rough.

Speaker 2:

Well, it was hot because it was the eighties.

Speaker 1:

So you know, some of the best comedians that you see now is came out of.

Speaker 2:

Boston. Dennis Leary was there. Oh my God, all the all this was. Stephen Wright would come in on occasion. He kind of got discovered.

Speaker 2:

First I, williams, would come to boston. It's a big college town so everyone would pass through there. And we used to go to one club, nicks um in in boston and they would let all the comics stand in the back. It was kind of like a little restaurant in the back but you had access to the stage. So they'd say you guys come in free, study seinfeld, study robin williams, study everyone, see what you can learn. You know out of their cadence, their, their thoughts, everything. So we were studying the art form as well.

Speaker 2:

And a couple comedians said you know, you're not getting discovered here because everyone's a hack. They're copying George Carlin or Bill Cosby's old stuff, changing the syntax of the words saying it's their own, the words saying it's their own. He said you're a comedic artist and that's why you're getting kind of rejected, because you're going into places where no one's been to find humor and create deeper thoughts with the humor to open people's minds. And so that was my fate as a comic. But I didn't realize it would help me conquer stage fright. Public speaking, writing jokes became writing books. You know what I mean. So it was just the proving ground of what I was going to become, which I didn't see at the time.

Speaker 1:

So how does LA happen? So you go, you move to LA, and then how do you get connected with?

Speaker 2:

Well, the biggest thing is there was a big it was called the comedy riot in Boston. It was a yearly thing and I got the number five spot, which is the best spot of the night. It was a lotto. And then the host came up to me he said well, you got moved to number 10. So when you're in, the person who they replaced me with was a young kid, young college kid, college town, and I was in my early thirties and I probably would have won that.

Speaker 2:

But the person they gave my five spot to won that night and they did not want me to win, they didn't want an alternative or an original comic to win, they wanted someone who was predictable. A lot of comedy. They want predictable. They know you'll do the same set over and over and over again and change this, and I would always try to have a new set every time I performed to make a fresh, original and thought provoking. So they didn't. They didn't like the artistry of comic, but the predictability. So I gave.

Speaker 2:

After that I said I've been at this for about five, five, at least five years, maybe even seven years, probably about five years, a good five years. And I said there's no, i'll'll never escape this here. So and I'm a summery beach person and as a little kid I was stealing books from used bookstores on Los Angeles as a like eight-year-old, 10-year-old kid, saying this looks like the most interesting city on earth and it's like, I guess somehow in my incarnation I knew that would be where it'd end up, you know, thousands of miles away, 3,000 miles away from the East Coast, Wow, and so once in LA, how did you hear about Constellation?

Speaker 1:

How does that? You know how does that happen? Because it must have been very, very new, right yeah?

Speaker 2:

Well, I was doing massage and I said OK, well, I guess I'm a healer with all these insights. And then someone came in to a massage center I was working. We started talking. She said I'm new in LA and I do this modality called constellations. Blah, blah, blah. I said well, would you want to trade sessions massage for showing me this experimental thing? We hit it off immediately and then you know what year was this.

Speaker 2:

This was 1990, probably 1998. And you know she put papers on the floor. We didn't have any reps, it was just kind of a one-on-one private session. Then she said stand on your mother a piece of paper, with mom on the underside, dad on the other. And I stood on my father's paper and I said I feel dead inside. She looks at me. No one feels dead inside. I said I'm just telling you how I feel. I don't know how this works. And she stood on a. I feel dead inside. I said I'm not making this up, I'm a very honest person. So I helped her expand her beliefs.

Speaker 2:

And my father was on Omaha beach in World War II, all his fellow soldiers being killed, flying into Nazi bullets. You know he had so much post-traumatic stress which turned into violence against me. You know 10 years later. But now I understand with much more compassion how anyone could survive that kill his way to Germany and then come back, you know, severely traumatized by all that death. But yet you know he sired seven kids. So it's like that's another metaphor how does death inspire life to go forward? Because if you here's a, here's an interesting fact to it. I don't know if you've ever heard it, so guess how many baby boomers were born after World War Two? Oh, wow, and the soldiers coming back? I would imagine a lot. 75 to 80 million people between 1945 and 1964, I believe in that 20-year period. Guess how many people died in World War II? 75 to 80 million, wow. So how?

Speaker 1:

does great death stimulate great life. So how does?

Speaker 2:

great death stimulate great life, and 90% of the baby boomers, of which that's the generation I was born in, were anti-war and hence the hippie culture. I used to be a hippie, with shoulder-length hair, and all that in the 60s. But we were protesting the Vietnam War and all the violence in the world and trying to have peace. Flower power, the Beatles, music, marijuana, whatever. We were of a totally different mindset, the counterculture to the warlike industry that the federal government was exercising all over the world through the CIA or Vietnam, whatever conflict that they were financially supporting, which really is all about money and not human life. So it goes to show you the generation after World War II was peace-loving, anti-violence and did we know we were incarnating after a violent episode in human history?

Speaker 2:

Now, what's interesting about England rock and roll coming? Well, it came from the US and the South with our Black talented musicians, but it really got captured by Beatles, rolling Stones and everything. So what did Mick Jagger and Keith Richard or Eric Clapton have to go through as children? Hitler bombing London Is the loud sounds of rock and roll music exploding sound, an echo of the bombs that they had to listen to as young boys growing up? When Hitler was bombing London turned into rock and roll music and a whole subculture a generation later. It's just fascinating when you look at how the world is influenced by historical events.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's that evolutionary force that Jan Jakob Stam talks about. Yes, it's like you know how things change the culture and I never realized how many people were lost during World War II. And then the baby boomer generation.

Speaker 2:

So about the same amount.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how does it all?

Speaker 2:

balances it out. Yeah right, and how does death in our family system, so our family systems? Being younger, you know, I used to be the kid in the family system. Now I'm clearly a senior and ancestor. How'd that happen? But it's like all those generate.

Speaker 2:

Time passes so fast and you know that's part of the life force too, that it's space and time and we're all living it, not realizing it's going to come to an end. So now it's 73 years old, I think more about death and my impact before I do leave separate from my life's work and healing the environment, stuff like that. So it's a bigger picture time in my life. But I also feel the intimacy being gentle with the intimacy of someone's pain. And a lot of people say that you are so tender with the people you work with. Because I just want to be gentle with their suffering and suggest what if this thought, rather than your same old, same old, what if this? You know? And they start to get more compassion for their parents, because the parents had to suffer unimaginable stuff through their time in history, not to mention what the grandparents reacted to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's, that's such a beautiful thought that you can actually carry, you know, carry your parents with like an egg right, that, rather than like holding white, knuckling them from going away, you can have this right size relationship with them. And you know so, I always think you know that that meditation is a, is is a is an attempt to provide connection with the meta parent, absolutely. You know the healed, connected parent that is on, that is inside of every, every one of our connections one that brought us here Right, so that that's such a good way.

Speaker 1:

And the tenderness I love that point, the tenderness of like, when you're doing this constellation work, to be so patient and so tender and really create space for the person to have the subtle movements that are gonna happen in the constellation. So, man, I love that approach. So, over the years that you've been doing constellations, how have you seen the work evolve and grow?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, I had a great practice and I've just Sedona. Well, I was doing workshops for a couple years in Sedona but there's a million New Age things to do there so it's hard to build a practice. And Gwen St Just, who I'm a big fan of, she has a pretty good practice there, but somebody who you know, the owner said she stopped going because she feels she's hearing the same client say the same story over and over again.

Speaker 2:

So my renegade theory, which I work out of, is let's finish the past, let's let it be in the past, let's take the life force that was hidden there all along and then create our own happiness. And when we create that happiness and fulfillment in our life, we're honoring all the ancestors who came before and that's what they now. Here's the cosmic irony. That's what they wanted. The Irish didn't expect a famine, the Jews didn't expect Hitler, the Chinese didn't expect a war from the Mongols or whatever. Or if you go back to Rome with the barbarians, no one expects so one meme kind of phrase I have. No one asks for what life gives them. It's a very simple statement, but it's very deep and everyone is in reaction to what they were given.

Speaker 2:

So a lot of our parents, whoever, even ourselves, we don't stop and really feel the impact that we could be acting that out rather than finishing it and resolving it. So I see constellations as a tool to finish the past. So we use all that chi and create the dream life we want to live and pass that on to the next generation of children, if you happen to be a parent, so they have happy lives and they know they don't have to suffer to belong to the family system. That's one thing. A lot of people the loyalty and suffering they think they have to suffer to show the loyalty to the like say women who are victims of incest. And I say that a lot, because I've done probably 18,000 or 19,000 constellations and probably 15,000 were sexually abused women or young girls and some boys too, but mostly women. And so some of them have come to me as grandmothers saying Gary, I heard about the work you do. I don't want to pass this on to my granddaughter. I want to protect her, but I don't want to pass on my bad feelings to my father or mother blah, blah, blah and that they pick up on that and then they end up being victims too, and I've had it happen during knowing the clients that their kids ended up being victims of stuff. But they came to me for healing. And the other thing is okay.

Speaker 2:

So say, somebody's abused by their brother. You know young girls abused by their brother who was, you know, she was seven, he was, you know, starting to feel sexual at 10, 11, 12, whatever. And the person closest to them, you know he experimented with his own sister or whatever. So then they grow up and their son will say, why does she hate men so much? Why does mommy hate men? What is it about men? That's a secret in the family. I gotta find out what's wrong with these guys. Or what's wrong with me that I'm a boy, you know. And then the next generation starts to. Well, I better find out about this because there's some reason. Mommy's got a thing against men, you know, and then that's how it tracks in the next generation and the next generation of boys may want to love the men, not realizing they're perpetrators.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's just one story that's actually very powerful, if I can take a second on that. So a woman she happened to be Armenian in LA and she was raped by her boyfriend and got pregnant and she was so angry that she had gotten raped that she hated him. So, anyway, so this was like 16 years ago. So she brought in her 16-year-old son, who was? It touched me to tell you he was the most enlightened little boy you would ever meet and everyone in the group knew her story because we had worked on it about five times.

Speaker 2:

Then she brought her mother in and her mother was crying during the consolation, didn't speak English, but she happened to be raped when she was young too, and he came to me. He said I want to do a consolation. I don't know why my mother hates my father so much. So, of course, professionally, I couldn't tell him why. I said yeah, she's going to treat you to a consolation, let's see what happens. So it was just, the whole group was just like oh my God, this boy is just like walking on water. He was such a pure spirit and I said can you hold? You became a mother through a sexual tornado. You had to live through a storm that gave you this divine being and let go of how you became a mother. I'm not saying, you know, deny your resentment or anger towards him.

Speaker 2:

So, after about a second constellation and she started to warm up. He says I want to go to Armenia to be with my father on summer vacation. Mom will let me go. Gary, I'm going crazy. I want to know my father and she won't let me know my father, and I don't know why. So we did the consolation. She said okay, this is against every morsel of my being. I'm going to let him take his summer vacation you know, the two months off June and July or July and August rather and go to Armenia. He called her two weeks later Mom, I'm going to come home, no-transcript. And then here we have, being loyal to the father, anger against the mother, a second generation, but where she gave in just for that. And I said you're going to be golden for the rest of your life. You let him do what he wanted to do. He's growing up from boy to man. You let him make a manly choice and he's going to be forever grateful for you for allowing him to make that decision himself.

Speaker 1:

No, and you know, both things can be true with love and create space and say I don't, I don't agree with the choices or I have opinions on what you've done and I'm not going to repeat those. But without judgment, right, it's like, and it just like that entanglement that comes with that. It's just such a powerful and it's and it's almost 4d understanding of life, you know, and so many people use that as and and in some way justified as a weapon against the world that they've gone through so much pain. And it's understandable from a human perspective, right, but from a systemic lens, perspective, you know, what we reject, we become.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, exactly, and people don't realize that, and I've had so many, so many cases. But it's just such an honor to get people to see things and that's the beauty, because you know, even my training with Heinz Stark, I still hated my father at 50 years old going through consolation training, because I was so stuck in being and I was whipped severely, I mean, you know, very cruelly, and it was at the end of the training. He asked, heinz asked for a final statement in mind, which is still hard to say, but I say it anyway to challenge myself. I come from a good family system, oh, wow. And for me to say that after what I went through is, you know, when I went into facilitator training, hating, like justifying, what do we call it? There's a word for it, I'll think of the word.

Speaker 2:

But a righteous victim A righteous victim is actually a perpetrator, a club perpetrator. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing. So when you get clients like that, you say, ah okay, they're carrying the perpetrator energy, but they're playing the victim to be so righteous that no one will see they're actually a perpetrator in training.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they're a perpetrator in training and that is. You know, it's almost like they weaponize the righteousness of God, god's judgment, right To say I'm going to wield, you know, I'm going to wield this force and I'm so above you that you have that. You know, it's almost that devouring mother, almost that is going to consume you. You know, and he's like holy crap, that energy is pretty, pretty intense and it can and it can turn into that perpetrator energy. That the trouble is Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So and you know, bert was against forgiveness, and a lot of people in the new age community. But, like you're saying, with that, when you're a righteous victim, you make yourself bigger than the parent or your grandparent, whoever the abuser was, whatever or the oppressor we'll just call it general oppressor. And so a bird would say to somebody I can't work with you, you're too big. And then too big, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2:

Well, so part of receiving deep healing and consolation work is to make yourself humble to the bigger forces because somehow, whether you agree to incarnate, to learn this lesson or to survive them, so you'd be strong enough to survive anything, then there's a gift there that you won't see when you're big and arrogant, and a lot of psychotherapy in the United States. Oh yeah, you're. You know you had bad parents and keep paying me for 10 years to lay on the couch. I'll tell you how bad they are and I'll be the good parent for you, you know, and that doesn't really heal you. It just placates your righteousness or victimization even more, with the psychotherapist, you know, backing you up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's all judgment based and you know like our social systems are judgment based and they're forgiveness based, which is even worse, you know. And the judgment thing is you know Tiziano was on the podcast recently and you know he's a facilitator out of Australia and talking about that concept of forgiveness.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and to forgive first you have to absolve. First you have to judge, then you have to absolve and say I, you know, rid you of the guilt of this. You know, and it doesn't work that way. And you're of that original school thought to say, you know, you can have an opinion and you can create distance and the flexibility between you and the person, rather than and the bigger way to release it, which I wrote.

Speaker 2:

I'll forward you the essay that I wrote on a real simple one page thing I would give to clients. Acceptance is how you're free. I accept you're my father. I accept I was a better child. I'll never understand why you do that to your only son out of five. You know six sisters, but I accept you're my father. I was strong enough to stand up.

Speaker 2:

And Bert, one quote that Bert said directly where I have had direct access to him we would talk after 12 hours of constellations, we'd take a supper break, then we'd do three hours of lecture. I mean we're talking about 18-hour days for seven days. Wow, because we all flew in from all 40 countries all over the world. So it was every culture was there imaginable. So he said all the evil in the world comes from one thing and it's I'm better. I'm a Nazi. I'm better than a Jew. I'm white, I'm better than a black person. I'm Catholic, I'm better than a Protestant. I'm royalty, I'm better than a serf. If you really look at that simple equation, apply it to all of human history. I'm better is what elicits perpetrator energy in human history and family systems. Hi.

Speaker 1:

I'm John Zulu. One is more than just a podcast. It's a mission to bring healing to families and communities. By becoming a supporter on Buzzsprout, you make this mission possible. Click the link in the description and join us, and thank you so much for being here. You know one of the things that I'm originally from Venezuela, so I, you know we have done constellations in.

Speaker 1:

Spanish right Fantastic, the words are always very fascinating. To me it's like to consent, right, and the compounding word of that is with feeling. It's like to accept with feelings that the consent, you know, of the, of the source of consenting, and it's just such a, such a powerful framework to put this conversation in, and that's why Hellinger was demonized, because don't forget the people who were against Hellinger he wrote I probably shouldn't say it, but he wrote a love letter to Hitler.

Speaker 2:

So the German community. He was rejected for being. I call him the Columbus, the Columbus who you know. Everyone's saying the world is flat. Now they're going to say no, it's round because of the circle. You better go around to see what it's really about. So he wrote a love letter to Hitler about if I judge you, if I'm bigger than you and I'm a German, you know, by birth, then can I be a perpetrator like you if I don't accept your place in German history? And so I rewrote the letter and I put in the place of Hitler he did it to provoke people, for sure, but I put in mom and dad the same words rather than Hitler, which really upset the German people. I understand too why the culture has a lot of guilt over what happened in World War Two, but when you replace it with mom and dad, it's there's the entire consolation concept in just a letter of acceptance.

Speaker 1:

I, when the first time I came out and I wrote I wrote a whole article, article about that like how I first came across that and I just understood I was like you know, in some way I had I discovered this modality and I, like I was so disgusted by it in some way and and I realized it was my judgment towards that and the perpetrator in me was really activated by that. And then when I I read it again, and then I read it again, and I read it again is like you start really understanding the nuances of how deep that is. That, yeah, I am. If I judge you, then I judge myself and then I therefore am I superior to you, right? Or dare I love you, right? Or dare I understand? Like, and you're like, I still get goosebumps about it.

Speaker 1:

It's like, you know, for some people that are so wounded that's that just being the presence of that is almost impossible to understand. And I understand why, yeah, but when you're on the other side of it and I've had this, wasn't I didn't discover this. This was Holocaust survivors that gave me this letter, that showed me that are facilitators and they're of the consolation world that said, look, this is what Hellinger wrote about Hitler.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And when you see it from that perspective, and these are survivors of the Holocaust, their family of course, all their families to the Holocaust right. The people that have the most at stake, to the direct impacts of these things can look at this from you know. I think it's called oh man, I'll get emotional, it's okay. Like you and me and the path to forgiveness. It's like oh man.

Speaker 2:

Just the shared humanity of that is so powerful as humans, we're so trapped in duality right, wrong, black, white, good, bad, jew, gentile, whatever it is. But speaking of one of Hellinger's simple insights to follow that up, he said never forget the same God that created Jesus, created Adolf, yes, yeah. So he said who's your argument? Who's your argument with?

Speaker 1:

I mean, I'm going to cuss on this and who? But who the fuck are we to judge? Exactly? You know it's like it is and that I just you know my, my first um um teacher in this work is. His name is Alberto Iturbe. He's a Spanish, he's incredible, a Spanish facilitator, and it's like that's between you and your creator, that's between you and God. We're no one to judge. You know what these outcomes are. Yes, I can protect myself and distance myself from whatever that is. That is my responsibility. But you know to really create, really create. You know the same force that created you, created me. Right, exactly, and ultimately, um will determine the outcome for both of us. You know it's just like, yeah, that's man, it's that. It's a crushing weight of the reality of you know, of the divine it's, it's just so powerful you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I try to get people beyond duality in everything I do, in the books I write and everything. I just wrote a book on propaganda. I wrote a book called being a Sembi about misogyny, how that's expressed in family systems through sexual abuse. But goddess energy taught us way back when in my first training he said even if you have too many issues with your mother or father, put a rep there, but look behind them to divine feminine or divine masculine before they got wounded by the grandparents.

Speaker 2:

So, say, if you can't even put two reps, it's a. Okay, you're too, you're too. You're too fried about your father or mother. I'm going to put another man behind him. You try to make it taller so they look at the head of the person. This is the divine aspect of your father, who didn't mutilate you or whatever. Or mother and the mother. See, the divine mother. Which the irony when you're placing them like that, you're placing the grandparent.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly Exactly. Or the ancestors, the ancestors in general. Yeah, it's a true, yeah, it's a true. So you win, you win either way. You win either way. Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah, I mean, that's such a, you know, I'm such a. I'm so passionate about this work because of that Right Is that you can, you can create and, like you said, you know, the rebelliousness is like I think healing is the most profound act of rebellion that you can do. Right, and one of our brand is soul rebel. Right, it's like we're we're soul rebels because, you know, the rebellious ones are the ones that show where the system can heal exactly black sheep, you know, and most of how many black sheep have you come across in your time?

Speaker 1:

and and and the constellation world? They're the ones that step out and are healing right.

Speaker 2:

I would say almost 100% of my clients were black sheep, but here's the conundrum with it we had the courage to stand up and be different. We had the courage to say something's not right with this family system and that led us on our path. And then we get to share that, but a lot of family members will reject the member who's trying to do something different. I had discovered in a shamanic journey that I think my grandfather and his brother were sexually abusing me as an infant. So I said Mom, this is a letter. This is before I discovered consolation. I was right on the cusp of discovering it. This letter is between you and I. Did you see any funny business? If you let me be babysat by my grandfather and his brother? We lived on their farm and you know, when I was an infant, until about five years old, and I said some stuff came up in a journey. Oh, and then she told I said do not share this with the family, I will not discuss it with anyone but you. I said the bassinet was by the window, it was white and around the window was a powder green, like pastel green, and a lot of shady things happen either if you went in town with my father or whatever, and I have. She was shocked. She said you described your infant room identical to what you know here. She said, oh, you're on drugs, you're off the deep end, blah, blah, blah. But she said you described the room and she showed him my sister. Look what a pervert your brother is. Look what he's trying to accuse me of doing. She was a toxic narcissist and I don't say that lightly. I have compassion for narcissists. So many people disregard it. But when no one paid attention to you, you, you, you become even opening that can of worms. But I wanted healing to happen. And here's the irony After my first constellation in LA.

Speaker 2:

So Margo Riddler was the one I met in LA. We did stuff at my house. She started holding local workshops. I told my massage clients that I would go to be clients and just support by being a rep. And a woman, an Irish woman, happened to be there. She didn't know my mom was of Irish. What I thought was Italian heritage or Irish and Jewish, is what it really turned out to be unbeknownst to me. And she said you know, I feel something with my heart. I knew my mother had beginning of congestive heart failure. And she said I think there's some incest in your mother's thing.

Speaker 2:

So I go home I was in LA and I go home for Thanksgiving, I fly back or whatever and at the Thanksgiving table my mother says, oh, I was sexually abused. I didn't say anything about the consolation Right, didn't mention. I said, oh, I discovered something new, I'm experimenting with blah, blah, blah. And she oh, yeah, I was sexually abused by my first cousin, albert, at four years old, and I don't know what happened, but they had to move out of Boston after that event. So, fast forward, my sister, my youngest sister, was sexually abused by my mother's second husband's son, named albert, at four years old. Oh wow, same name, same age.

Speaker 2:

And we did not know that story till what? 40 years after the original event or 50 years after that event. So look at how the template was established with the name and the age. It's like defies quantum physics, how that invisible template. And that's what Helen would tell us. He said you think you're the first. He said you're just the latest iteration of the same drama and how you deal with it is what's unique. And if you can escape it is even more unique. And constellations offer us a yeah To finish the past and not let it rule us in the present and future.

Speaker 1:

You know, and I love that saying it's like history doesn't repeat itself. It often rhymes Right Is because it may skip a generation, but you may, you know, be in a relationship with abusive person, or you may be the abuser in a relationship and then like and it skips generations, but it has almost a. I've always had this thought that it has like a probabilistic math to it, right, it's like if you have an you know this childhood wound and it looks like this there are probabilities of you being in a relationship or being the person that's doing this stuff in your lifetime will repeat itself is of 82%. You know that you have that Right. And it's like um, I think that there's a momentum to it and, and as we heal, the power of that momentum goes away, like we grow out of that old pattern in some way.

Speaker 1:

It's like it loses its oxygen. It's still there. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It doesn't mean that it didn't happen again, but it loses that oxygen. And I've seen this with my own kids. Right, I've got an 11 year and an eight year old. It's that as they are growing up and they have, there's patterns that show up. I work and I deal with that and I'm like, oh crap.

Speaker 1:

I deal with that thing and you know, whether that's anxiety or whatever that is, I deal with it. And then it's like, OK, that that seems it's dealt with right. And then the next thing, it's like, okay, well, this is the next thing that we have to deal with and I deal with that, and then I do my own work and do many different modalities of healing, but it's worth it because it can change. I think this has the power of changing the world no-transcript.

Speaker 2:

The common man and ultimately, I feel the biggest perpetrator goal in the world right now is to create starvation for complete control of a society, and people better be aware of that when they start going after the farmers. Internationally, it's America, it's everybody at the same time.

Speaker 1:

So it's yeah, you brought up Jan-Jakob Stamm and you know we were. He'd come to a facilitation, to a workshop in Miami and was facilitating it. And so I got to do systemic training with Jan Jagerstam which was really. Fantastic. And so he, you know he was doing the class and he was asking and doing stuff and somebody asked him, like you know, jan, what would you like to work on? What is your goal next? And he's very elegant and tall. I know tall.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, put his hand on his chin and he said what it truly means to assume responsibility. And that hit me like a ton of bricks, and that's what I think this work does is. It is a profound assumption of responsibility because if you can change, if you can heal you, you the echoes of your healing will revert, will reverberate throughout society, right and throughout your system, throughout your home throughout your social system throughout the city, throughout the state, throughout, and the more people that we connect on these conversations, you obviously have had a major impact with 20,000 people doing this stuff right.

Speaker 1:

How many people has that changed? And I think that that has a way of changing the course of a country Absolutely, of a society of a planet, if enough people put you know that into those systems that can really really do that. And then we see the systemic resistance emerge Right, exactly Like the you know stuff that you see with you know the pendulum swinging the other way, but it seems like it goes into this you know certain direction, towards connection rather than disconnection over many iterations.

Speaker 2:

You know one nugget that Bert often said which really applies to this. Some of the simplest sentences had the deepest reverberation. Here's one direct from Bert Hellinger Children blame. Adults take responsibility. Yeah, and if you look at that, if you're 50, 60, my age, 70, blaming your parents for this, that and the other thing, you're still a child. And if you look at, I mean, you know not to diss the United States, but it's like we've become a nanny state and the governments are allegedly good or bad parent and we remain children so struggling to survive in a progressive tax system that we can't worry that it's being organized the way. It is kind of against us with our own money. That's the cosmic irony. The government does whatever it does, positive or negative, with our own money, more often against us rather than for us. So then we'll blame collectively in America. Oh, it's the government's fault. It's the government's fault. Well, that gives us children. And then we want to hold the government's feet to the fire, which our founding fathers always thought free press would do.

Speaker 2:

that Our founding fathers did not see corporate press taking over information way back when they thought that the people, the people's voice and the press would hold the government officials' feet to the fire. And the Second Amendment if the First Amendment fails with free press, the Second Amendment there say we're armed and we feel differently than you and we're going to show you, you know, hopefully nonviolently, but we have the power to throw you out of office, so we get a government that serves us rather than doesn't serve us.

Speaker 1:

So there was a I love this, this comic bit, and it's it's by Pogo.

Speaker 2:

It's very similar to me.

Speaker 1:

It says we found the enemy and they is us yeah, you know it's like if we, and that's the kind of the whole zulu one. The concept is that we are one consciousness, right, if we, we are, we connect to this morphogenetic field, whatever you want to call it, the field of you know, the, the knowing field, the, the field of consciousness, whatever you want to call that thing, it means that we can represent each other in such a profound way that is truer than truth.

Speaker 1:

It's the bedrock of reality that you're connecting to, that we're a mother that you've never met, that you're suddenly representing. You say a word. That was the thing that they've always said.

Speaker 2:

That's what they call them as a little child, right, it's like you know, you've seen this pattern amount how many times a million times right.

Speaker 1:

It's amazing, this power, that it's undeniable 20,000 people doing the same constellation over and over and over and over and over. It's like you turn on the light, it's like you turn on internet. It happens every single freaking time. You put the people in the room, you're going to get a constellation and you're going to get the profound insight and blows everybody's mind.

Speaker 2:

I know it's incredible.

Speaker 1:

lasting healing for generations is like well, this stuff is magic, there's no other way. It's a miracle that this stuff happens and I'm just always so in awe of when you know people you know get spun up in the vortexes, right of like. You know this happens in my family, right, they're like oh, this versus them and the thing is like that's okay.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

We're doing constellations. There's amazing people out there doing constellations and breaking these patterns. Yeah, and my trust, because hope is a noble failure, right? Michelle Blechner said that and I love that Hope is is is failing nobly right that I trust that there's enough of us and there's enough momentum that this conversation is happening, that you're out there with a 20,000 people, that you've done 19,000 people, that you've done constellations. With that we're shifting the consciousness and the momentum of this planet.

Speaker 2:

Now, what's amazing about the work? I don't know about you, but it's so hard to convince people. People get into such a place of avoidance where they make up any excuse not to be there, even sometimes when they're a paying client or whatever sometimes when they're a paying client or whatever, but it's any modality where people I had people in the room in LA for my weekly workshops who never paid for a session but were there every week. So when the client had picked just an attendee named Mary to be at her father's side because she missed the flight and her father died in the hospital, the plane was delayed and the father died. She could be there after he died, but she wasn't at his death. The person she picked missed the flight for their father's death. Now another woman who was.

Speaker 1:

You can't call that coincidence, I know that's something else.

Speaker 2:

Another woman from the Amazon. We're talking about the Amazon jungle, not Brazil, not a city. Her mother had 20, 27 children. So when you don't have TV in South America, you end up uh not much to do, so she she was the 10th born of her family system and her mother divorced the father.

Speaker 2:

She was tired of having children after they all grew up, so she divorced the father because she didn't want to birth any more children, move to Rio de Janeiro, whatever. But she had picked a white woman in the room who was the 10th of 16. Wow, the exact birth order. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1:

Not as many kids.

Speaker 2:

I said what are the odds of that?

Speaker 2:

So those people who were picked in those roles were getting healed by being in the presence of the room without even being the client.

Speaker 2:

And I said why is it so hard for people to come to this work realizing and I would market myself that way I said when we heal one, we heal all. So just being in the presence of this enormous field of consciousness, my skill is that I can read the messages quickly that are coming to me and through me and I always used it as an educational experience for the whole group, almost like teaching the whole group quantum consciousness and that they got to experience with that. So I wouldn't be there just for the client. I was taking the whole group on the client's journey to educate them about the systemic principles and asking them how it fit with their life. So I viewed myself as a teacher, and number one. The field of consciousness of the teacher, the client, is the vehicle to get to it and then to share that wisdom and knowledge with all the people in attendance who took time out of their day of their life to have an amazing experience that they'll never forget. You know, with me as the facilitator or whoever they end up going to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's you know, one of the things that I, that I like to say during Constellation is like you know, I didn't, you know, I haven't renewed my Illuminati card. I didn't meet anybody at the crossroads. I didn't get abducted by aliens and this was inserted into my consciousness. Nothing special happened, right that I'm this extraordinarily human being that has this, it's like I truly believe that everybody has the ability to do this. It's just hidden under the static and the noise of your trauma. That's it.

Speaker 2:

And people don't realize. So Western culture is very materialistic oriented. I wrote a book with Amit Goswami, a quantum physicist, and he said what do you do? Blah, blah, blah, it was the third party got involved in us writing a book called Quantum Activation. So mine was all about constellation, his was about science.

Speaker 2:

And then our other author, our Carl David Blake, was more about more in the psychotherapy, how it's all integrated together, and he said, okay, what is the stuff you do? I said, well, think of a goal. That is house and Eugene, oregon. We met up there a few times to just get the gist of the book. Then we wrote it, still on Amazon, and I said, okay, think of a goal, touch my shoulders and, uh, just, I will percolate and tell you what's coming through. I gave him this entire life story since birth, really intimate details about a child loss, father's emotional. Now this is just me, by myself, speaking about his father's emotional to the mother, to the child, and the grief and what happens in the child born after the miscarriage or whatever, and the grief and what happens in the child born after the miscarriage or whatever.

Speaker 1:

And he's there, I have to rethink quantum physics after meeting you I said well, you know consciousness.

Speaker 2:

He's a proponent that we're conscious, the universe is conscious and humanity's gone down the wrong path by only accepting materialism as real, when consciousness is actually more real than materialism. But the human psyche wants to be 3D, physical and not include. I mean what I view it as. Everything comes from an idea of God, creator, whatever goddess, whatever you want to call it, then it turns into a thought, then it turns into physical reality. But it always comes from that, like we were talking at the beginning about music, it's coming from this realm of creativity. It's always there. We can't see it or feel it, but it's dropping a song into us, it's dropping an insight in the middle of a constellation that came out of nowhere. Bert would always say during the work he said you know, I thought we were going one way and I just got this insight of what the real issue is and I would always pride myself. And while I was going, I knew Bert would probably do that in the training and I said what's the deeper thing going on here? And even consolation facilitators would reject me being the renegade, even in the consolation community. So we had Heinz talking to someone, a young girl, who's definitely playing the righteous victim car, but she's cute and Heinz was like romantically charged by her. We all knew it. It was no secret. So he said okay, you're in your final week of training with me.

Speaker 2:

When you hear her talk about her issue, what do you hear? He went through 22 of us. Then he got to me and I said a baby starved to death from hunger. It was left by the side of the road. Everyone looked at me. What the fuck are you talking about? That was nothing of what she said. Where do you get this? Like erroneous, I said. You asked me my thoughts. That's what I tuned into. Two hours later, baby left to the side of road who died of hunger, going from like Moscow to Poland to survive the Russian, bolshevik, whatever revolution 150 years ago.

Speaker 2:

So I knew I had a tuning into something that was so bizarre people which is very similar to Bert and that insight, and he and I just connected like we were so buddy buddy every time. What is it with you and Bert? You know, and I'll tell you a quick story about that, I did not know this at the time. So we were all struggling as facilitators at the end of our training to get people to a workshop. So we had facilitated meetings every quarter, about every three months. How's your practice? Any clients coming? Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2:

And then we said, ok, why isn't Constellations flying in LA, of all cities, people are creative, theatrical, blah, blah, blah. La, of all cities, people are creative, they're theatrical, blah, blah, blah. And so they said, gary, would you represent Bert? And I said, yeah, no problem. And they picked another guy to represent Constellations not working in LA. Well, the Constellation guy fell to the floor, the rep for Constellations in LA.

Speaker 2:

We were so specific and we're a part of Heinz Group and I was there. They said, well, how do you feel? It still touches me to this day. I said I don't care about anything except picking this guy up off the ground, I don't care about constantly, I don't care about money, I don't care about anything. Picking him up, and you know we just hugged and cried together. Picking him up, and you know we just hugged and cried together. It still touches me very deeply.

Speaker 2:

So here we are, two or three years later at Bert's training in Austria, and he said my biggest pain is my older brother was constricted by Hitler and never returned. So in a way I felt in the larger cosmos. Bert had known somehow, even though I never told him the story, that I had connected him to his brother. I didn't know until he made that statement and that he was. Everyone said why is Bert so buddy-buddy? You're like he would come up to me after the workshop. Do you think I covered all the points? Did I miss anything? They said why is Bert? He wouldn't talk to anyone. He had like blinders on. Just you know I'm going to dinner.

Speaker 1:

I've given I've given all my blood. Yeah, that's hard, that's real hard.

Speaker 2:

He'd come over to me and say did I, did I miss anything? Did I cover anything? And the highest compliment he ever gave me, he asked me to do a paragraph above his book called lawss of Healing Weirdly, you know, an intro paragraph to the book before it was published, and he loved what I wrote. And then Sophie Hellinger erased my name and put Bert Hellinger under my writing after Bert had died and I thought, wow, that's so disrespectful. But after I wrote that paragraph, he said you understand my work better than me. Paragraph he said you understand my work better than me. And just the way I could express it in writing and he was an author too, he was a writing and I didn't take that as any arrogant.

Speaker 2:

I thought the highest compliment I could ever get from my teacher is that kind of cerebral understanding, plus the emotional vulnerability side of it and the humbleness about it. I never did this to be arrogant. Like I know better, I always come with the points like I know nothing. Let my client teach me where I need to go, what I need to learn. They're my teacher to guide me to the bigger field that knows everything and I'm just a transistor to communicate yeah, makes sense. And open my heart to a deeper level and open my heart to a deeper level.

Speaker 2:

You know the perpetrator stuff. What's happening with some facilitators? I know they're making judgment about the perpetrator energy because they're stuck in duality. You have to come from a neutral place where you're not judging jury for anything. That perpetrator energy has a ton of information that can be data mined and transformed for the client and I've had the toughest cases. I almost feel the field is testing me. I had two generations of satanic sacrifice in the same family. I've had multiple sexual abuse. I had one woman I did a workshop in Calgary. Her 13-year-old great-great-grandmother was raped in the rectory by the priest after Sunday school and it was the only time I ever brought in Jesus or Mary into a consolation to protect that little girl inside the.

Speaker 2:

Mexican Catholic church, but they migrated to Calgary. Now here's what I said to the group Would the client be here working on this? If that rape didn't happen, she wouldn't exist. Yeah, so I'm not saying what the priest did was right, but life didn't seem to care how it expressed itself and the way I had the male rep as the priest face the wall and I said look up at a big cross above you and just say this forgive me, father, I have sinned. And then I had the client with Virgin Mary, with her being a pure woman who was above sin, just being held by a woman to protect her from that nasty event that befell that 13-year-old girl who did not know she'd be a great-grandmother in 40 years.

Speaker 2:

So it's like the field works in mysterious ways. Can we be open to the mystery? Can an average facilitator be open to the mystery of not understanding and letting the field come to us? We don't own this field. We're the communicators for it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's one of the things that's come up for me. A lot is you know, I've been I've been involved with constellations since 2008,. Right, and I've studied many modalities and I didn't feel like I was ready to facilitate until many, many, many, many, many years into this. Like, oh, I know, you know, I was like. And then you hear people like I, I know constellations, I'm a facilitator. It's like I've been doing this for a year and you're like are you?

Speaker 2:

serious that is.

Speaker 1:

That is wild to me. People, it's, it's, it's your, you know.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a bit of where that arrogance a bit of the arrogance comes from is that you have people that just don't. I had to lose people. I had to add people to my life. I had to, you know, be married for a long time, like, go through some trials and tribulations, grow as a human being at 42 years old. That I'm saying, you know. Like I haven't, I've been facilitating for a while, but you know, to be able to go through life and and now I'm like I, I believe that I'm ready to be able to do this and I do it with such a high level of, of, of patience and and tenderness and and care for the process and the integrity of, of holding that space for people to be able to, to deepen, to go into that, and I think the more and I've seen this in facilitators that I really respect that the more integral you are or the more integrity you approach it, the deeper you can go.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And the humbler If Bert and even 9 Stark and Bert, the humbler you can be, the more you'll receive the gift, because actually you know everything. If we boil things down to its common denominator, simplest essence, it's our ability or inability to receive. We can judge life, we can judge our parents, we can judge how it came, we can judge where we went through. I don't want to say no to that. We're all cerebral human beings. We have our own belief systems and thoughts to keep us alive, so we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep us alive, so we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Speaker 2:

If I had to be defensive against what I like in my childhood is living in LA, I would see empty parking lots with one weed growing in the asphalt in a three-acre parking lot. I said in my family system I'm that weed. You can drive over me, you can beat me. I'm going to find enough sustenance to grow amidst a place where no life would grow. So I feel like this is bizarre, but I identify like as a weed in my family system that couldn't be stamped out or squashed out and that's also a sign of strength against all odds. So I bring that strength to the work that I did not know that those kind of negative experiences would make me strong and compassionate and courageous to face anything, because I've been through it myself.

Speaker 2:

It's resilience at its core, yeah, and have compassion for people's pain. The details may be different, but it's still pain, yeah, you know, and just having compassion that they did that. Or, the biggest thing about being a facilitator is they're trusting you with their soul. Can you be the first person on earth that they open their soul to, to show you the wound and to be guided to heal that wound in a loving way, in a compassionate even if it's not loving, compassionate way, a gentle way to show them, hey, we can open a different window and you can look at that through a different window, rather than the window you've been looking at it for, you know, since the events happened, and that's the biggest thing you know opening the conscious, the consciousness of the entire room and the client simultaneously.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's one thing that I'm I'm always in awe of is how courageous people are. You know, they just sit in that chair and they're just so courageous to you know, do that? It's just so humbling to be a custodian of that process. In some way it's just a Sherpa of that process. And, man, Gary, this has been an incredible conversation.

Speaker 2:

Oh, beginning of many more, anytime, you know, I'd love to.

Speaker 1:

I'd love to have you back and we could have this conversation over and over again. I know you have a wealth of knowledge. Oh yeah, so many experiences A lot of a lot of experience, and this is this has been truly beautiful and and know that you have a friend that's rooting for you in South Florida and that you know anything that you need, we'll, we'll be here to support you.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, also put me on your workshop list, because if I get referrals from anywhere, I always refer people where I'm not doing the work as much anymore. I'm doing more private sessions with people that aren't afraid to go really deep. I love it. It's still fulfilling just to keep my fingers wet in the field. But I give people referrals everywhere, even people in LA. I said I'm not going to be in LA for three months. Go to this person's workshop. A lot of people there used to be my attendees who went and got certified. Now they lead their own group. So it's about you know, expanding consciousness globally. It's not about me, it's about you know, and I see all these international conferences. Shabasti, john Payne he has a great video on forgiveness one of the best descriptions I've seen. So share that to a client that has talked about forgiveness. He did a great video. I'll send you my acceptance over forgiveness essay that I wrote. That's probably in one of my books here. So, yeah, just keep it out there. Earth needs more consciousness. Yes, 100%.

Speaker 1:

So how do people get a hold of you if they want to ask you a question, if they want to connect with you on social media? How does that happen?

Speaker 2:

Well, I got hacked bad on Facebook. So, no, no, really bad. A woman in person, a black woman. I'm not and I'm not racist, but it's my picture with a black woman's name on. Facebook with 5000 followers a week before I released my book.

Speaker 2:

I was like, but they could always email me, gary at Sheafield, and I have one quick thing to end with. I have Gary Stewart Healing S-T-U-A-R-T. Healingcom. There's a wealth of information, faqs, talking about constellations, the process. But my newest book, which I'm working on right now, is about AI factor fiction the Beast Unchained so I'm working on it right now is about AI factor fiction the Beast Unchained so I'm working on it right now. And what I want to reiterate to everyone we're into machine learning. Now I rebranded my website so they mirror each page, mirrors each other. It's called ancestralintelligencecom. I love that. So we have a built-in AI that's a thousand years old, with a million experiences of trauma and survival that our entire ancestry filtered into our DNA. We wouldn't be here if they weren't a success. That's where a lot of people bad family system. This happened, that happened. Well, guess what? They were successful because you're here and you're alive, so they did something good. If nothing else, they kept fucking every generation.

Speaker 2:

So you could be here in the 21st century. So I want to be the antithesis to the. I'm not against AI, but the machine learning here's my thing that I'm really fighting with over this. Ancestral intelligence has heart and soul and we can make a decision, a gut feeling. Ai is mental of facts and figures. Maybe it'll become sentient one day, but at the moment it's all mental. And what I'm studying about AI, it's having hallucinations.

Speaker 2:

I had typed a piece of my book in who's going to dominate AI? And I asked an AI chatbot what do you think? It said well, with Joe Biden, president. Blah, blah, blah. So AI was never fed. And then at the end it gives a disclaimer I was only programmed up till July 24th, so the AI bot did not know the election happened and Joe Biden was no longer the president. But if you look at the thing garbage in, garbage out whoever programs the AI is going to program their bias into it. So you could see from that AI's answer Democrats were obviously the programmers, because they didn't even include. So I just want to stand up for humanity. That our gut instinct. If something's truthful, right or wrong, a machine trained bot will not have that information and we're going down the technological road. Not that it's a bad road, but it's incomplete and we already have so much wisdom inside of us. We don't need a machine to tell us what's good, bad, right, wrong.

Speaker 1:

And you know I want to definitely schedule once the book's out that we have you back on the podcast to have that conversation. I think that is such a cool conversation because constellation systems and all this stuff together is a really, really, really. Exactly yeah it's a really chunky one. I love, I love to have that conversation, and that's my goal.

Speaker 2:

That's my goal with the book too to open people that were already geniuses. We don't need a machine to be a genius for us.

Speaker 1:

Exactly so, Gary. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it Me too. You're a prince, Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Zulu One podcast. If you found value in today's podcast, please don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Your support means everything to us and thank you for being part of this journey.

People on this episode

Head Shot

John Acosta

Host