ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

10. When Rest Feels Unsafe: Healing from the Inside Out | Dan Cohen

• ZuluOne • Episode 10

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Dr. Dan Cohen, co-founder of Seeing with Your Heart alongside Emily Blefeld, is a renowned figure in the realm of therapeutic practice, specializing in the inclusion of personal, ancestral, and spiritual consciousness. With a vast understanding of global history, mythology, and culture complementing his psychic abilities, he utilizes Constellations to alleviate individuals, couples, and families from the inherited burdens of various traumas and pave a path for healing and spiritual renewal. Also recognized internationally for proposing solutions against violent human tendencies, Dr. Cohen transitioned from strategic weapons research to peace and holistic wellness initiatives. He obtained his PhD in psychology from Saybrook University and an MBA from Boston University. The author of "I Carry Your Heart in My Heart: Family Constellations in Prison" and various scholarly articles, he and Emily have conducted workshops and training in 18 countries. Together, they are gearing up for a unique 12-day Constellations retreat this May in KwaZulu Natal, South Africa.


Find more from Dan:

Seeing with Your Heart: https://seeingwithyourheart.com/

Article in Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610723001013

I Carry Your Heart in My Heart: https://a.co/d/6aGhpFz

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seeingwithyourheart/


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Find more from us:

Website: https://www.zuluone.org/

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the podcast. Today, I'm joined by Dr Dan Cohen, a leader in family constellations and ancestral healing. We discuss his work in prisons, the power of constellations and how AI could shape healing. We also explore alchemy and transformation and what it takes to break free from inherited burdens. If you're curious about how hidden forces shape your life, this episode's for you. Thank you, Dan. How are you? Good, Great.

Speaker 2:

Good to see you. Yeah, glad to see you, and to have this time together is really special.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, thank you, thank you, and you know very quietly in the background, you've had a huge influence in how I look at constellations. So I want to start off with gratitude to say thank you. Sophie Sudai, my dear friend would always talk about the work that you've done and the different modalities that you've done, and always been just as fascinated by how profound this work is and your background being very technical and then getting into the consolation world. So tell me a little bit about how that journey started.

Speaker 2:

Yeah it's. You know I'm old so it gets to be a longer and longer story. I'll try to minimize it a little bit. I grew up in New York City during the civil rights movement and then the black power movement. I went to middle school and high school in Harlem, so this activism was really close. And the school that I went to was a progressive private school in Manhattan, small, racially diverse in a lot of different ways, racially diverse in a lot of different ways, and they really put a lot of emphasis on making the world a better place. Just change the world in your little corner of it.

Speaker 2:

And when I got into my 20s I was moving around a little bit and I took a class at Northwestern University with a professor who had done her dissertation on Isaac Newton's alchemy. She was only one of two academics in the world who had really seen the alchemical papers. They had been hidden for centuries, the alchemical papers. They had been hidden for centuries and it's an interesting story but I won't go into the details. But she was a high school science teacher in Arkansas, in her hometown, and she ended up at Cambridge University to do a dissertation on the history of science and she was given these alchemical papers and invited to go into the data and write a dissertation. And what she discovered was that the modern scientific worldview which I had grown up on, the materialism, secular humanism, the physicalism, the secular humanism, the physicalism the belief that humans used to think that the Earth was at the center of the universe and the planets and the stars and the sun, everything orbited around the Earth and the Earth had been created by God and man had been put on Earth and then women as a kind of helper, and this was the universe. It existed in this celestial sphere. And then science came along in the 1600s and blew the whole thing up and discovered through observation and mathematics that the Earth, that the sun was at the center, everything orbited around the sun, and that the Earth was just the sun was at the center, everything orbited around the sun, and that the Earth went from the center of the universe to just like a pebble in the vast emptiness and it made our lives empty as well. That this huge existential dilemma of the modern time is the way that this scientific shift changed us from feeling ourselves at the center of the universe to basically nothing, to just an accidental collection of chemicals that with no meaning or purpose, just through blind chance, just happened to come together, just somehow.

Speaker 2:

What she taught from Newton's work is that, basically, there was no science behind the worldview. There was behind the solar system, but the principle that came from it that the universe is empty and meaningless and that everything can be explained in terms of physical forces and these laws of physics, that that was unscientific, that it existed. It was created by the English crown and the global corporations, the first global corporation, which was the British East India Company. They needed an amoral theology to replace Christianity, which put limits on what you could do, replace Christianity, which put limits on what you could do, and in the pursuit of wealth and empire. In pursuit of wealth and empire, they created a theology that allowed unlimited amounts of enslavement and exploitation and extraction, and then they sold the scientific worldview that went along with it. But what she taught was that it was not scientific and that the science actually showed that the universe is filled with consciousness and that consciousness comes first. It's the primary mover, is not matter and energy creating consciousness, which is the modern view. It's consciousness creating energy and matter.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow energy and matter, oh wow. And that that science is more grounded in the experimentation, in the data, than the materialist worldview, which has basically never been confirmed.

Speaker 1:

So rather than being heliocentric, it is almost consciousness centric. That is, like the consciousness is the base of reality that holds the universe together. Am I understanding that correctly?

Speaker 2:

Right, if you look at the latest like kind of maps of this of the solar system. It's not what we were shown in school which is kind of you know, used to do those styrofoam balls and the sun hanging and you put the planets, you know the sun itself is moving, it's flying at like you know billions of whatever miles you know per second.

Speaker 2:

It is hurtling through space and dragging the planets along with it which are spinning around it. There is no kind of fixed heliocentric solar system the way we think of it, and that, yes, it is all. Everything that happens starts with the non-physical. It starts with consciousness, okay, and the consciousness creates energy and then matter, and there's a continuum that consciousness is the most light, it slows down into energy and then it slows down more into matter.

Speaker 1:

Oh, wow, jeez, that's humongous.

Speaker 2:

Right, and this is confirmed in quantum theory. So the quantum experiments of the 1920s demonstrated this, that consciousness comes first. And the founders of quantum theory Max Planck, david Bohm, et cetera recognize this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the David Bohm stuff is so fascinating, it's so fascinating.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

It's the. It is the same as what I'm saying. I could say it in his language, but this is his work as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I spent my 20s and my 30s and most of my 40s on kind of a mission to solve the second half of the alchemical mystery. The first half how to transform matter, how to turn lead into gold also comes from quantum theory and it is essentially nuclear. Fission is a transformation of matter. You could write how to change lead into gold on a blackboard with a mathematical formula, but what we have done with it is we've weaponized it, because the other half of the alchemical mystery, the kind of the feminine half, the non-physical part, was left to atrophy four centuries ago. And so I took on to try to be a scientist of the heart, to look for how to create transformation in the heart, and I did that for about 25 years, and after 25 years I came to a place where I realized there was a tool missing, that what I had to work with wasn't going to get us as a species or myself, on this mission where I wanted to go. I'd kind of run out in terms of all the different tools of psychology and spirituality even, and religion and politics, all those things. They weren't really getting there, and so I had the opportunity to stop working.

Speaker 2:

I had an engineering company that I had owned and operated for 18 years and my partner and I sold it to a gas utility. So I got a little bit of money from the sale, enough that I didn't have to get another job immediately. And so I went looking for the missing tool and I devoted myself to finding the missing tool. I knew it was out there somewhere. I assumed it was out there somewhere, but I didn't know what it was and where I would find it. But I saw a flyer for a Family Constellations event in South Dakota. I was living in Boston.

Speaker 1:

In South.

Speaker 2:

Dakota, south Dakota, in Rapid City, wow, at the end of November in 2000. And I saw that and I thought this looks like what I'm looking for. Just from reading the description I thought to myself this looks like it. So I flew out there, I registered for it and I flew from Boston to Rapid City in the middle, you know, the end of almost the beginning of winter. Oh my gosh, to do this three day with Heinz Stark, who I don't know if that's a name you know, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

And when I saw his work the first day, I thought, okay, this looks like it, but I'm New Yorker, so it's always. Everything's met with a lot of skepticism.

Speaker 1:

It makes sense.

Speaker 2:

It makes sense, but I wanted to pursue it. So I found out Bert Hellinger was doing a seven-day event in English in Germany that spring and then Susie Tucker and Bert Hellinger were doing a training in New York City. That started later that year and I signed up for those. And then I also went to graduate school. I got a PhD in psychology, started that because I wanted to have some background. But I thought, okay, this is what I'm going to be doing and that was uh. That was the opening, uh, 25 years ago now, to uh my work as a uh family constellation facilitator.

Speaker 1:

That's incredible. And so how you know, I know when you get into the consolation world it's like first you start, you know, attending consolations and then maybe co-facilitating some consolations or being used as a representative in many places. How long did it take you to transform into that facilitator role and really lead the constellations?

Speaker 2:

It was about three years of training. I did the training I did with Bert and Susie. That was a year and then, you know, bert was coming back every year and there were a lot of other Germans that were coming and I went to Germany a couple of times to some other conferences and then gradually started looking for opportunities. It's actually how I started doing work in prison, because there weren't clients and nobody had ever heard of a constellation. And then when you explain it to them, they really don't want to do it, much less interested once they know what it is, the systemic resistance wall goes straight up and they're like, yeah, nope, I don't want to touch that.

Speaker 2:

Right, totally yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, and, and you know, I, I recently this was. This is a very embarrassing story for me, but I was with my wife and we're on, we're on a plane and I had picked up your book and I had your book on my shelf for a little while and I'm like, and Sophie, sophie Sudai, our dear friend, was saying you know, you should read this, you really should read this book, because I'm on the flight and thank God I'm like on the window aisle so my wife could shield me a bit, but I'm sobbing on the plane as I'm reading and I'll, man, I'll get so emotional now, but just um, just the depth of humanity, you know, just, uh, really yeah, just the depth of, of the human spirit, you know, and the arc of the human spirit, and there's a line about being in some way and I'm paraphrasing here, but being in the depths of this prison that creating this incredibly sacred place. It really touched me to see the resilience of the human spirit, that you can create this incredible modality in some of the most horrific environments.

Speaker 2:

Right, it was the men who were in that environment, living in that in my circle, had committed themselves to take a spiritual path and had been for many years by the time I met them, and so they were really ready for this, to do this work. And to you know, we work with the victim perpetrator bond, which was not available for them with the other, you know there's a lot of volunteers that go in. Yeah, they're still with me. They closed the prison. Oh, it's been a while, it's been over 10 years. The prison closed and the men were all distributed to other facilities and I made some attempts to try to transfer to other facilities, but it's in the environment. I had to go through a whole vetting process and it just didn't work out. So I've been out of that, um, that role. I would, if they they were still there, I'd still be going in.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I wouldn't have stopped it's beautiful yeah, uh, but it um, after they closed the prison, I didn't have a way, but they energetically and and then, through consciousness, there's they, uh, still with me and they're with me in some of the you know the really tough spots when I'm with working with a client who it just seems hopeless, you know the worst they come and they stand behind me. Or, if I'm feeling, there was one time where I can't remember the details of it, but I was working with someone and the issue they presented was so the situation was horrific and their resources were so limited, and they kind of looked at me like, how are you going to help me? Like everyone has.

Speaker 2:

Everyone who's ever touched this has failed, myself included as a client. No one's ever been able to do anything good with this. It's just been one after the other. And they looked at me and I felt really humbled and I was like, well, what makes you think I'm going to be able to do something in the face of the enormity of this loss and the destruction? And this is when I felt the men behind me a couple of them who had passed away came in very distinctly and they were, you know. Their message was well, like you're not here to be one more person that fails.

Speaker 2:

You know that's all they've had. You know you're in this situation that somebody come and do something good, Somebody come and do something that makes a difference, and that's what you're here for. What a gift and I just felt their support and it was. You did a beautiful piece of work, and not about me as a facilitator, but just working with the field and bringing in the resources of ancestors and spirit to be able to come in with support and just hold a container for what was possible.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that very much, you know, parallels my experience a bit. I'm working with an organization called the Circle of Brotherhood here in Miami and it's just like some of the most incredible human beings that I've ever witnessed, that have spent, you know, multi-decades in in the prison system and, despite all the efforts of the system to maintain the, the patterns of pain, they've come out victorious on the other side. You know, and and through different healing modalities that they've found themselves is and just and just you know, the transformation, in face of the odds of these systems that are designed to perpetuate the victim-perpetrator narrative or the victim-perpetrator dynamic. So, you know, when I saw your book and I started reading, I was just like my mind just was continuously blown. And you and I had a conversation when I started doing this work and you were like it was, you know, paraphrasing here, but you you said something of a nature of like it's the most rewarding work that I've ever done, you know, and I was just, I was so humbled because I knew that that's the journey that I was, that was that I was on, and you just really start seeing. You start seeing you know communities as systems and when you start putting certain communities.

Speaker 1:

In certain systems you start saying, oh well, there's been a victim perpetrator dynamic going on for 600 generations, for a thousand generations. That is like continually perpetuating the patterns of pain. The culture is almost solidified into maintaining those structures. So how, you know, how did you navigate? And it almost seems I'm asking a couple of questions here. But you know, I always see, when you go into, like what I, what I just saw, what I heard you say, is that you know, there was like an opening in the system, like you went in, did a bunch of work and then the system closed it out because it knew it was going to be changing. And you almost like, inoculate the system with healing and the echoes of that will turn into God knows what. Right, I mean, one of the signs might have been that this prison itself shut down because there was already so much systemic reverberation throughout it. Right that?

Speaker 1:

they had to shut it down because, because it doesn't work anymore or whatever, for whatever reason. So I'm just always fascinated about the, the echoing of healing throughout systems, and if you've noticed kind of the same pattern in that, in that, in that way, by using our bodies as instruments that connect to this universal field of consciousness.

Speaker 2:

So there's, you know, 600 or 1,000 generations, yes, of this kind of war-like, destructive quality, but there's actually 7,000 generations behind those 1,000 generations, because the 1,000 generations are about 30,000 years and there's 200,000 years behind that of evolution of our. Our bodies have evolved and our bodies evolved with this incredible resonance and capacity to interact with the consciousness of the universe, and a lot of that, culturally, has been extracted from us, but evolution has maintained it. It's in our bodies. So when we are able to retrain our bodies to be able to interact with the universal consciousness field and do it in a way that we're not creating a new religion, we're not, you know, writing it all down and then you know presenting it as the new truth, but teaching people that every time you do it, the message is just for you in that moment and the next time it's going to be a different message and everybody gets a different message. It's just using evolution's capacity in our body to be able to interact consciously with awareness, because our cells are doing it all the time. Our cells are quantum machines that are drawing this information from the universal consciousness field, but our culture, language and narratives all say that it doesn't exist. Narratives all say that it doesn't exist.

Speaker 2:

And if it does exist, it was. You know, somebody figured it out a thousand years ago or 2000 years ago or 3000 years ago and wrote it down, and then it's degraded since then. You know, the ultimate truth existed sometime in the past, in this book with these teachings, and you can only receive it by kind of going back into that tradition and then you can try to, you know, revitalize some of it. That could be useful for you. But my work is evolutionary. It's mystical and it's evolutionary that this is what is going to happen in the next thousand generations of humanity yeah, develop our capacity to interact with awareness, with the universal energy field and information field, and be able to live accordingly. And it's transformational. This is the transformation and the heart is the organ of transformation in the body, where we can start to digest and process these old traumas and turn them into nourishment for a future.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's. You know. What comes to mind right now is kind of this advent of AI, right, Everybody's talking about.

Speaker 1:

AI and how machine learning is working. And you know what? I'm so encouraged by this fact that what may happen is that AI shows us how much dark matter there actually is, which is this universal morphogenetic consciousness, whatever you want to call the thing that we've all called it the Holy Spirit, the universe, mickey Mouse, this thing that connects us all, that the equation will be presented in such a way that, like, there is a dark matter here that we haven't attested for, and I think in some way dark matter may be that consciousness that holds everything together and that will get to a point where the technology catches up with the spirituality in some way, because it makes no sense that the thing, the phenomenon that happens in a constellation happens from modern standards Right, that you can say we can do constellations on Zoom and somebody is representing the person's mother immediately, 3000 miles away or however you know, whatever the distance is, and immediately starts weeping because the mother lost a child that she didn't know about or whatever that is, and so it's not bound by time, space and this reality that, on a regular basis and in a repeatable, measurable, trainable fashion, we can connect to this in knowing field. And there's so much, there's information that you would never know about it. So I'm fascinated about what the future of technology and how it's going to connect with this modality, is going to look like in the future.

Speaker 1:

And thank you for standing on the shoulders of giants and thank you for being one of those giants, because it's very fascinating to be doing this modality at this time with you know, with all the past and and the incredible teachers that we've had and putting that together, it's been, it's been, it's been really fascinating. So tell me a little bit about you know um, the alchemical constellations, and I I had the um. I had the privilege to experience. You facilitated a constellation with for me back in November and it was extraordinarily powerful. I always like to go to facilitators that I don't personally know very well because it's you know, you always get a clear channel right or a clear, clean slate. So I just jumped on the opportunity and I just wanted to say thank you, but tell me a little bit about how you came up and developed that modality.

Speaker 2:

I want to, um, let me just. Can I loop back to AI for a moment? Yeah, sure, uh, I want to get, I want to answer that, but you, you, you. You spoke about AI and I have, um, there's an aspect to it. So, ai, we'll get to the point that you're describing, but before it gets there, there's a way that the game is rigged, and it won't get there as long as the game remains rigged.

Speaker 2:

In AI, there is an assumption that human consciousness is created by the brain and that the silicon chips are reproducing what the neural networks in the brain do and that they can do it better than the brain. And so there's an assumption built into AI that the AI machines are going to be able to replicate and then improve on the capacity of the brain to generate consciousness, to generate consciousness, and so that's and that is grounded in the same economics as the formation of the global corporations in the 1600s the British East India Company. It is, if you look at some of the thought leaders, harari. Who's this guy? I can't pronounce his name. There's a guy who wrote the book Awakening to the Meaning Crisis most of them Sam Harris. They are all taking the assumption that consciousness is created by the brain. And until they get past that the scenarios that you outlined it will come. But it won't come until that barrier is kind of knocked down or overcome.

Speaker 1:

I just don't know how somebody could stand in a constellation, do a constellation and be in denial of the you know of what it is. It's just a. It seems like it's. It's about exposure. You know, you get, you can't. It's undeniable, it's, it's truer, that the information that comes through a constellation is truer than truth. It's the foundation of reality and it's, it's just, it's. It's fascinating to look at it from, from that and be like every single time, without doubt, without a doubt, this information comes up and it's as true as the sun is going to rise at. You know, whatever six, six, fifty three am, you know is good, it's there, it's just it's there, there's no denying it.

Speaker 2:

Right. So it will take time, but there's still. Even in the Constellation world Bert Hellinger was very agnostic about where the representatives are getting their information and there is a lot of. The constellation leaders who have succeeded the most and have the biggest platforms have not challenged materialism, have not challenged science. So they say, well, I want to keep this scientific, say, well, I want to keep this scientific. And then they explain representative perception in terms of neurology.

Speaker 1:

They kind of reference it back to the brain to mirror neurons and so even in the constellation world.

Speaker 2:

There is a question or a kind of fudging of where the information is coming from and, as you're saying, it's not coming from within our brains, because we're accessing information and also there are after effects that happen, that that happened. You know the woman who does a constellation. She hasn't talked to her father in seven years and she's in germany and he's in australia and she does a constellation and then, you know, the next afternoon he calls yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, um, you know so many stories like that. So, uh, absolutely what you're saying. But there's, we've got a ways to go, because the machine doesn't eat itself. So it's not going to easily, because if they were just going to look at the evidence, we'd be way beyond it already.

Speaker 1:

Hi, I'm John from the Zulu One podcast. If you like what you're hearing and it resonates with you, please consider becoming a monthly supporter. The link is below Thanks, yeah, and we would be doing 20,000 constellations and putting you know machine learning on top of it and doing data analytics on it and seeing you know what the probabilistic math inside of constellations is and where it comes from, and say, yeah, there and where it comes from, and say, yeah, there's actually a different, there's a different phenomenon happening here that we don't understand. And I'm I'm a big fan of Rupert. You know Sheldrake and you know just having conversations with him, because it it you know from what I understand is that Bert and Rupert were friends or or at least knew each other about.

Speaker 2:

They knew each other.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they knew each other and so the relationship there was interesting. And you know I want to. My future kind of goals are to design experiments around, you know this morphogenetic fields and how it explains the phenomenon of family constellations. That is a consciousness question, right? It's like where is consciousness emergent and in how? And so if we you know I go down the rabbit hole very quickly on this I'm like, well, imagine if we started managing governments with, you know this, these principles Right, or managing companies with these principles and managing social systems with these principles and principles of healing, of healing, and you know cultures having unresolved trauma loads and then resiliency scores of how they're able to deal with those trauma loads.

Speaker 1:

And you know that in some way, religion has played its part on creating the infrastructure. Far enough to hear that. You know that we've built at least this infrastructure on, and then it has another evolution of what that looks like. And you know there's a book that I've read. It's about a Japanese samurai. It says when you know the way broadly, you see it in all things. And I think it goes back into seeing this infrastructure. That happens in all things, literally the consciousness infrastructure.

Speaker 2:

And we have this odd modality that taps into this thing on a regular basis. The Netherlands, they use constellations in the government. The EU uses systemic principles in a lot of their agencies. So it is coming, and it's a bit of a slow crawl from what I would have liked to have you know, feel that we were there, but I don't know that I'm going to be around to see it. But it's, you know, the arc is definitely moving towards an awakening of awareness to our interconnection with each other and also with this like quantum information field. So it's, uh, it's coming at this exciting time. It's, it is a really exciting time to to be a constellator. So you're hitting it at a at a great time, uh, where you can. You've got decades, uh, to do this and we'll, um, you know, you'll see, you know, tremendous advances and acceptance. I'm sure as, uh, you know, more and more people become aware.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a. It's a. It definitely is an exciting time and you know, I was fortunate enough to be exposed to constellations in 2008. And so even that time, people would be like what are you talking about? You know, you know just the the fact that people had no idea and then just being exposed by all the modalities of of systemic constellations, the structural constellations, so your modality, alchemical constellations, you know, just to see all these modalities that emerge and I think first, one that said is that many flowers will, will bud from this, from this work. Right, and that's exactly what's happened. People are doing it with horses and seeing like all these these just incredible, um, transmutations of this, of this work.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, it's, you're, you're absolutely right. I'm fascinated by this and that's why I host this podcast is to say let's get the voices out there that have been part of this, this incredible, you know community to to have these conversations. So I think this is this is the beginning of something really interesting, and you know people did yoga for how long before it became. You know yoga mats everywhere and Lululemons, and you know franchises of of yoga across the country. So I think we might be in the 1988 of yoga that right before it breaks through. You know that maybe it's on Oprah's best you know best modalities list at some point here in the next three years.

Speaker 2:

It's getting closer, definitely. Well, let me I could tell you about alchemical constellations. I know you asked that kind of looped away to AI, but talk about that. So the principle of alchemy that we're working with is the interplay of transformation on the material level and on the non-physical level. The material is kind of the masculine movement, that's where manipulation tangible, and the non-physical is more of the feminine.

Speaker 2:

Okay, the movement of science and corporations also corresponds with the witch hunts in Europe, okay, and the destruction of the cultures of women's wisdom, of plant medicine, of telepathy and second sight and these magical arts that were, you know, largely destroyed in Europe and, you know, in the developed world. And so the alchemy is to regenerate the parts of ourselves that had this capacity for magic, for, um, psi phenomenon, psi awareness, and to be able to do, uh, healing through working with non-ordinary consciousness and uh, it's centered in the heart and we're working with in an active way, with the consciousness of nature and ancestors and spirit, to be basically be able to turn the shit of our inheritance, our trauma inheritance, to be able to transform it into compost, into nourishment. And the heart is the instrument of the alchemy. And then we've designed some, I would say, some specific techniques in the modality of constellations where we're working with, in a sense with quantum theory to be able to release these entanglements. It's quantum.

Speaker 2:

It also mirrors Taoist alchemy, which is different from European alchemy, but they're both about I'm not familiar with Taoist alchemy. Right, taoist alchemy is Carl Jung's alchemy. So if people who have studied Carl Jung and his alchemy, it was sourced from Chinese alchemy, from Taoist alchemy. In the late 1920s and early 1930s he obtained the first translations of Taoist texts that were translated from Chinese into German and he was completely taken by them and then started developing, doing his own writing about alchemy. So anyone that's read Jung's work on alchemy knows about Taoist alchemy. You might know Jung alchemy either.

Speaker 1:

No, no, no, no, I don't. I know Jung, but I don't know of the alchemy side, which is interesting.

Speaker 2:

It's basically working with ancestors and ancestral consciousness and the interaction between uh the living and the the dead.

Speaker 1:

yeah, uh bringing ancestors into a consolation is just such a powerful tool right, yeah, yeah, and what's incomplete in they?

Speaker 2:

you know a past family member, uh, who died traumatically or was some aspect of their life incomplete? In kind of a traditional classic constellation, we symbolically acknowledge their fate and that loss and then symbolically kind of give back to the ancestor. We have her set up a representative to give back to the ancestor. We have set up a representative In the alchemical constellation. I'm taken that the representative is literally channeling the consciousness of that ancestor. So they're not symbolically representing the ancestor, they are channeling and that the ancestor is also entangled.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and what the living person is feeling as their issue is the incomplete ancestor kind of pinging into their body, needing release. So the alchemical constellation is done on behalf of the ancestor, oh, wow, and the ancestor completes their life. In a sense there's something unfinished, yeah, and they get to complete that and then ascend or be absorbed into the greater whole, into the greater whole and when that happens the entanglement releases from the body. Wow, and it's not that different than a classic constellation or the constellations a lot of facilitators do. It's not a big shift, it's a change in language and orientation and also using the observer effect for the ancestor in the living to in a mind's eye, to be able to see each other and affect that release. So the ancestor is freed and the living person has a release in their cellular memory, and so they are also freed.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I really like the. It's like you're combining the very technical aspect of constellations with the shamanic aspect. You know it's like and you're putting it into this like new methodology which is beautiful's like, and you're putting it into this like new methodology which is beautiful. I really really, really like it and I, I really, I really enjoy that aspect is because I, I resonate with both. You know, I'm I'm very technical.

Speaker 1:

I was a, I was a jet engine mechanic in the military, so that's what I did. Right, it was like a knuckle dragging, knuckle busting kind of kind of. You know, um, very Tim Allen, you know, in a in home, and what is it Home? It was a home improvement. You know, you know very much of that. And then I, I came across these constellations. I'm like, oh, there's a whole different aspect here. So, um, you know, it was very, very interesting. So tell me, tell me a little bit about um, you know the epigenetic facts of how trauma works in the body, that you know. I think science has kind of caught up to spirituality in that aspect that we do hold the cellular memory in our bodies about trauma.

Speaker 2:

Right. Latest research in biophysics and molecular biology suggests that every cell is a quantum machine, that the cells are exchanging information between the physical and the non-physical domains constantly, just continuously. That the information of how to survive is in the quantum information field and it is being transmitted through cell communication at all times. And then the cells are creating the feedback loop to communicate back, and the physical manifestation of that are epigenetic marks, and this has been recognized in genetic science now for about 20 years. They thought in the 80s and 90s they mapped the human genome and when they thought that that would answer all the biological questions about all these rare diseases, that they would see the genetic faults. But what they discovered is that there are far too fewer. The code was so much smaller than what the expectation was.

Speaker 2:

So they then started looking at what they call epigenetics, which is just kind of the free-floating proteins that are around the gene, and they noticed that those have marks, they have switches, basically binary on and off, and that certain switches are in an on position relating to trauma that is inherited. So famine, genocide, immigration, other types of catastrophes. They can see the epigenetic marks and then in turn those lead to diabetes, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, etc. Eating disorders, et cetera. And so through this work with representatives and constellations, we can access the ancestor who was traumatized, whose trauma is related to the epigenetic mark in the body. And when they receive their healing, people feel and I'm sure you've noticed this in your clients they get like there's the big exhale, they have like goosebumps. They feel a big weight lifting off their shoulder, there's a somatic, there's a big kind of shuddering. They literally feel something losing their body, big chills kind of run through. This is epigenetic mark switching in all the cells.

Speaker 1:

Wow, Isn't that something Jeez? I mean, Kellerman's work on epigenetics and Holocaust survivors was really interesting when they talked about that, and you know, I wonder now if there's a post modality study that you can see if the genes can be switched on, if they can be switched off on people that have gone through a healing modality on the other side of it, and which ones are most effective a healing modality on the other side of it and which ones are most effective, you know? Does that make sense? Like if the trauma is the epicenter of the beginning of the you know markers? Turning on that, if there's a consolation or a you know medicine, sitting or trauma or breath work or something that turns those back to a more healthy epigenetic state than there was before, Right.

Speaker 2:

It'll come. I mean, you know it's expensive. It's like those experiments cost somewhere between 10 and a hundred million dollars to be able to do that research, to really land it. Because if you do one experiment with 10 people and it shows something that doesn't mean anything, you have to actually do it in a way that is credible and that could cost up to $100 million. That's wild. And then there's got to be a payoff. So one of the limitations of everybody gets their own message and it's different every time is that it's really hard to monetize that.

Speaker 1:

yeah, yeah yeah, you almost have to monetize it in. You have to look at it as a static in the system as a whole, right, and? And you have to look at macroeconomics. If you look at trauma as barnacles on the ship, you know that's slowing the ship down. Right, that creates more, you know. Everything that is not in connection is chaos, right, or it takes away from the economic incentives, like war, like you know, uh, poverty, like divorce, like you know, violent crime is all static in the system that you can maybe potentially make an economic model to say there's a post-capitalistic argument for healing, right, it's like it is in alignment with.

Speaker 1:

Healing is good for business. Let's just put it, you know, and to put it in layman's terms, um, healing equals ebita. You know in some way, that a healed business is a effective business and a business can I can create and not destroy. Right, I mean it could, it could come. You know in some way that a healed business is a effective business and a business can I, can create and not destroy right, I mean it could, it could come.

Speaker 2:

You know, right now the model that we have is um take the barnacles off the ship in the way that they grow back by next year, and I'll take them off again.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, next year and I'll take them off again. Yeah, you know, you know you don't want to actually take them off so that they don't come back. And I had, when I started I I talked to peers of mine and psychologists, psychiatrists, that were like laughing at me. It's like, well, how, where are you going to get your clients from? You know, you do you do like three sessions with someone and then they're like they're good to go. What kind of you, you, you will, you will die broke doing that. And I was like, well, I'm never actually going to run out of people.

Speaker 1:

Of course there's there's 8 billion people on the planet. Now I mean, it's some ridiculous number, right.

Speaker 2:

Right, if I can do that, I will. I will not ever get to the point where the last person has had their anxiety. Yeah, and also with those thousand generations, there's actually quite a lot of trauma, even when you do a constellation for someone. It's a big trauma field of those thousand generations that we have behind us. It's a big trauma field of those thousand generations that we have behind us, and they do keep lining up for more healing. The ancestors don't seem to be.

Speaker 1:

We don't seem to run out of ancestors behind us that need healing very quickly no-transcript that's a very powerful thing, like just to say in that capacity, that and also the you know constellations in prison and the work that you've been doing is is just so powerful. So, dan, if you know, if people want to get ahold of you, if they want to connect with you and I hope this is the first of many conversations that we have together because I'd love to follow up with your work and just continue to keep you posted on, you know the work that I'm doing as well If people want to get a hold of you, or if they I know you do trainings and you're a very powerful trainer and very, very complete and diligent trainer how do people get a hold of you?

Speaker 2:

Again, I'll answer that in a second. I want you know the next conversation. I want to hear more about your, uh, your facilitation and some of the growth edges, uh that that you're having and how you are, um, you know, using your body to access and and uh, that would actually be a really interesting conversation to uh to hear more about, uh, the work that you're doing and and, uh, just you know, kind of go back and forth about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we'll definitely schedule another one and and go deep in and do a deep dive into that conversation. I'll hopefully it'll be it'll be very, very soon that we can have that conversation, so I'll I'll really be looking forward to it.

Speaker 2:

Great, I would love that. So if people want to reach out to me, my website is seeingwithyourheartcom and my email is dan at seeingwithyourheartcom, so I'm easy to reach. Sometimes I'm a little slow responding because there's just a kind of a flood come in. I'm very earnest, well-meaning, but sometimes I have a hard time keeping up. And we have a training program going right now a chemical constellations training and facilitator certification that Emily Blayfield and I are doing together. We've been working together for over 12 years. So and I are doing together We've been working together for over 12 years.

Speaker 2:

So Seen With your Heart is the two of us. And I have a class Science, myth and Magic which just started a few weeks ago. I usually do that once or twice a year. That's a 14-week class where I go into a lot of the history, do maybe 30 minutes of teaching, and then we go into the field and we do collective constellations around different themes that are alive in the group and then we work globally. So the next trip that we have is to South Africa in May. It's almost full. It's going to be unbelievable. It's 12 days. We have a five day retreat in a wild game preserve and we're going to KwaZulu-Natal, which is where Bert Hellinger was in South Africa.

Speaker 2:

We're going to go visit the monastery where he lived. We're going to go visit the monastery where he lived. We're going to go there. But we're in that region Five days in a game preserve. Emily and I we're going to be constellating every day and then also going on game drives where they put you in this open air truck and then they drive through the game preserve and all the big African animals are all there to see all them.

Speaker 2:

And then we have a seven-day tour five days and plus seven, so it's 12 days, and we're going to different sacred sites. We're going to these ancient caves and the river and we're going to go to a village where there's a Sangoma, who's a traditional Zulu shaman, and she's going to receive us and we'll do ceremony with her and on and on.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, it's a whole oh, that's beautiful, that's an opportunity of a lifetime. Absolutely that's a once in a lifetime kind of journey. That's an opportunity of a lifetime. Absolutely that's a once-in-a-lifetime kind of journey.

Speaker 2:

That's amazing.

Speaker 1:

And you do do. Zoom constellations, constellations online.

Speaker 2:

Right, and then I do. Yeah, I have like a private practice where I work with people individually. I do mentoring, which is a little bit more of a longer program, but I do work with sea people individually. And Emily also travels around. She's going to be in upstate New York, she's going to Toronto, does live events different places. So it's all. Everything's on our website on the events and the courses, so you can learn everything about us there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's beautiful and that's beautiful, and hopefully we can get you down here in South Florida soon, dan.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'd love that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great. Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This has been a wonderful conversation.

Speaker 2:

I really enjoyed talking to you and looking forward to learning more about your work next time, john, yeah, about your work next time, john.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks, dan, appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in to the Zulu One podcast. If you found value in today's podcast, please don't forget to like, share and subscribe. Your support means everything to us and thank you for being part of this journey.

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John Acosta

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