ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

Healing Family Patterns | Breaking Cycles Through Family Constellations | ZuluOne | EP 14

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In this episode of the Zulu One Podcast, I’m joined by two of the people who’ve shaped not only this work, but my “why” behind it — Alicia Acosta and Cindy Biggs, my mom.

Together, we explore what it means to heal within the family system. We talk about the victim–perpetrator cycle, the power of forgiveness and responsibility, and why so much of our suffering comes from judgment, division, and inherited trauma.

Alicia shares her experience as a teacher on the frontlines of immigration challenges in Chicago, learning how compassion and boundaries intersect. Cindy opens up about her decades of government work and how personal healing begins when we focus on what we can control.

We also dive into how Family Constellations help uncover hidden dynamics, the loyalty to pain that keeps patterns repeating, and the grace that emerges when we stop trying to “fix” others and instead focus on healing ourselves.

If you’ve ever wondered how family trauma, faith, and forgiveness intersect, this episode will resonate deeply.

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SPEAKER_03:

Welcome back to the Zula One Podcast. I'm John Acosta, and today's a special one. I'm joined by two women I deeply respect and who are not just part of this work, but part of the why behind it. Alicia Acosta and Cindy Biggs. Alicia is an educator, a mother, a flamenco dancer with fierce grace. She's been walking the path of family constellation since 2007, learning, listening, and carrying this work with integrity. And then there's Cindy Biggs, who is actually going to lead the conversation today. Cindy brings over 30 years of global communication experience across seven countries. And more importantly, she brings heart, she listens for what's beneath the words. Together, the three of us make the Zulu One team. What's behind us isn't just a shared mission, just a shared belief that healing happens in relationships, in returning to our roots and seeing what is hidden, and honoring what's left behind. So let's dip in. That is profound, right? And it gets um really connected with your ancestors. And I have an ancestor in this room, my mom, right? So we get to do the home team again. So with Alicia and my mom, Cindy. And it's been a little bit, like nothing's really happened since the last podcast, right? Is that has anything changed? Um no, nothing's really changed since the last podcast. Um, obviously I'm being I'm kidding a little bit. So since the last time that we connected, it was a couple months ago, right? Um, a lot of things have changed. So there's been some shifts in cultural shifts, governmental shifts. Um things seem like they're getting harder in kind of general terms, which is a sign of movement or systemic resistance. So, how have you guys been navigating the shifting and from the human side and from the systemic side? And I'll start with uh with mom. So, mom, how have you been how have you been dealing with it?

SPEAKER_05:

Um, it's been a uh an emotional time, a really actually emotional time for me because I worked for the US government for 24 years, and to watch, you know, what the approach that was taken to right sizing the government, um, I knew a lot of the people that were affected, and I and I'm very well aware of a lot of the programs that were cut. And um that I I found myself kind of falling into depression because my heart hurt for those people. And when they would reach out to me, um I realized and saying, you know, what should we do? And I realized the only thing that I could do, and what the the advice that I could offer them was focus on yourself. Because you can't control what's going on, and if you didn't cause it and you can't control it, but what you can control is your own reaction. It's it's like the perfect time to dig deep and work on your own healing. So that's that's really what I've been focused on.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's huge. I mean, that's the serenity part, right? The um the the wisdom to know the difference, the things I can control and what I can't control. And, you know, Alicia, you've been kind of at the front lines of some of the things that's happening in Chicago as a teacher with students and everything that's going on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, how has that been shifting, affecting? I know you've stepped into the role as a facilitator and and you've done some some incredible work. What how has that shifted the dichotomy of being a teacher on the front lines and the front front lines of these people suffering, but also on the healing side? How are you balancing those two things?

SPEAKER_07:

I think it's a very, very fine line. And I always have to catch myself to not um get extremely involved in the whole process because I feel like Chicago has been a city that's been very, very targeted by the government right now because we're not a fan of the government. So there has been this like massive push of ICE agents into the city of Chicago and the way they're treating immigrants that are not here legally or that that are here legally, that have working permits has not been the best way. And the teachers at our school and at many, many CPS schools, Chicago public schools, who uh Chicago public schools have really like stood in front of the schools and have protected our students because we want them to come to school. We want them to receive an education. And a lot of the students just have stopped coming to school. Um there I have one student in particular who's been very, very public on the news nationwide, thanks to her homebound teacher, who is a dear friend of mine, who she's absolutely amazing. She's our French teacher and our department chair. And she her name is Ofelia Torres, and she has stage four cancer. And when I taught her last year, she was in my uh Spanish for Heritage speakers class, super smart, like beautiful. Like I just absolutely love her. And when she started to receive chemo, she started to receive the homebound services where she did school, she did school at home every day after school. And um, then she was in the hospital. And the weekend that she went home to like kind of like normalize her life. This was about a month ago. Her father was taken from Home Depot. And um that just created such an immense movement, and people became so because it became raw. Like for me, I was like, Yeah, I I, you know, like there's ice agents. I haven't, I hadn't seen any, I hadn't seen, I try not to see the news, I try not to see the videos of them like taking people away and be very violent because uh energetically and emotionally, that really, really affects me. And then I would talk to students, and the students are like, yeah, they took my dad, and now I have to run his construction company, or I they took my neighbor. Um, so I I've been really trying to navigate instead of focusing on all the negative that is happening, focusing on first that now there's been a community of people of adults that are surrounding all the schools, and they have these whistles and they start whistling and they start text messaging everyone when there's ice agents around the area. Because what they're doing is they're targeting schools where people are dropping off and picking up their kids. So everybody like element like and I get school swims, like small children are seeing their parents being taken away by ice agents. So I've really been focused on okay, what can you do for yourself? So I've increased even more meditations, more reflections, like, let's talk about this. How does this make you feel? Um, and and just try, you know, to understand that if one of them is extremely tired and is going through a really hard time, to give to give that student the space and to hold space for them so that they know that I'm I'm trying to understand what they're going through because I I I don't know how that feels because it hasn't happened to me. Um, and everybody that I know is here, you know, we're born here, they're here illegally, you know. So I just try to be as empathetic as I can. But yeah, it's it's it's just a really, really hard position to be yourself in. And it's so easy to get caught up with uh you're on citizen, you know, which is an app that notifies you when there's stuff going around, you're like you just start to get like triggered and you want more and more and more, and you and you just start to not to become addicted, but to uh to attract all those emotions that just make you feel like a roller coaster. Um, so I've been trying to like really step back and be like, How can I support myself, my family, and my students every single day in the classroom? Because I know that's more effective than me being exposed to all this negative um news that we're receiving everywhere I go.

SPEAKER_03:

And that's a kind of I'm trying to, and I know you guys are living this day-to-day, so it's not easy to look at the systemic narrative of where it's coming from and how why are we in this dynamic of you know ripping people apart from their families, ripping people from their families, and ripping the stuff there there is there is a problem, right? And that problem has been addressed in the worst way. And it's like it used to be this idea of this scalpel, and now it's this idea of just mass deportation, just how how that I'm trying to really square how you maintain both sides, right? Because there has to be a side that has structure and the things have to work, and there has to be a structure that you have to have some compassion, right? Some understanding. Like your student, it's just this is a horrific story that that that's happening, and that people are, and I've heard of uh uh people that are citizens that are that are you born in the U.S. that were that are finding the same fate. So it's like I'm really trying to square how what's the kind of the systemic lesson in this thing? What is the what is the bigger perspective?

SPEAKER_05:

John, I would be interested when Alicia said that um we don't like the government. She's what she means is we live in the state of Illinois. It's not we don't prove the government. But you live in the state of Florida, and it would be interesting to hear what your experiences in Florida has been like in this current situation, because obviously there are a lot of immigrants in the state of Florida. So what's happening in your neck of the woods?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, there's um on my side, there's you don't hear as much of the noise, you know, and uh, and I I fortunately work from home and I'm in a bit of a bubble, so I don't see a lot of that that that dynamic. I was seeing, I heard on the news or on Instagram or social media that there was some raids type of situations that were happening, but it hasn't been as pronounced as the more the cities that have just a higher visibility, right? And you see these higher visibility cities that have traditionally had I don't know what the narrative is, but they have a certain narrative to them. And and it's to say there's like it's force meeting force, you know, that which creates conflict rather than it being being aligned, it's just this conflict. And I'm like, how why why is it happening at certain cities and certain cities it's not? You know, and and also there's so much nuance to this conversation. I mean I was doing some research the other day, and you know, the United States is a mixed country. Yeah, there's there's Hispanic families that have been in the United States for 600 years since you know the Spanish-American War, that the it they're countries that are tied together, right? And then you start seeing that there's these other dynamics that are playing that are playing repeating from the same thing that happened with the Cuban refugees in the 1980s, and then the same thing that happened in you know these movements that have happened over and over again. And it's like, why what's the meta-narrative that we're trying to understand that we haven't healed yet? And you know, the one of the reasons why I do the work that I do is because I can help people break the patterns of pain.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And we're in the new iteration of what the pattern of pain is. And I I know it's very easy for me sitting in my my perch saying, Oh, I'm gonna think about this and you know, uh heal, right? Right. I I can say that very easily because it's not directly affecting my family, but I'm trying to understand the deeper, the deeper lesson in what this is and why are there certain places that have this conflict and have this narrative, and that's it's a clash, and some other places are aligned, and so some other places are, you know, it's it's um it's a felt self-fulfilling prophecy in some ways that the conflict happens and it spurts out, and it's they're like wounds that get reactivated because we have these historical wounds as a country that the victim perpetrator narrative blows up again and it comes up and it goes through, and it's these cycles that happen and it goes up and goes through. And I don't know how much more we can survive this division. And and I I really the I've I've written some some information about it, but the you know, the country that that that we all love is in deep division, and division is terrible. Division is anti-systemic alignment, what we do, and it's trauma activated, and people go at each other's throats and they look at other people as not human, as inhuman. And when you can call somebody not human if they're an immigrant or they're an ICE agent, you can justify violence against them. And so that's the dangerous part, right? That there's no place where you should justify violence, whether you're from up, down, left, or right, or polka dots or stripes.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, and I think that's the hardest part to understand is why is it so violent? Like, that's my thing. Like, why is it so violent on both sides? Because there's people that are against ICE agents that you know find out who they are and they blast them on the internet and they try to find their location at home and start to harass them.

SPEAKER_03:

And then there's other people's kids who and they, you know, they're they have a spouse that has nothing to do with this, and yeah, and then they have to pay bills, and we don't know the reason why they're doing it.

SPEAKER_07:

Um, we're judging them. So it's like really coming from a place of understanding, and and we're not doing that. So I that's my question is like, why is it so violent? Is what I don't understand.

SPEAKER_05:

So, John, when you taught you mentioned the victim perpetrator. Can you talk a little bit about what your understanding of how the how the victim and the perpetrator are interconnected, how they depend on one another in order to exist?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so um, you know, the this is a a meta constellation kind of idea, right? That the victim and the perpetrator are systemically entangled. I uh from my understanding, if this goes back to Cain and Abel, it's one of the first stories in the Bible for the re for that particular reason, I believe, that we as humans, because of trauma, have ingrained this entanglement of the victim and the perpetrator. And they those roles swap from a victim that is unhealed, becomes a perpetrator later in life, or it skips a generation, or becomes or or or turns into you meet marrying a perpetrator or being in a relationship with a victim or being and so you constantly see this this pattern happen over and over and over and over again in families. And it takes a different texture and it takes in in different narratives and it takes in different colors and it takes in different uh dynamics, right? And different people. And so the idea is that if you have a lot of people in a social system that are entangled in the victim and the perpetrator narrative, that these types of clashes will happen. That's like constantly we have a meta-narrative of a victim of the perpetrator, right? You can insert the person's name here of they're the perpetrator, and then you have the meta-narrative of the victim, and you start seeing political systems and social systems take on these lack of we'll call it woo-woo, call it whatever you want to call it, but these meta almost textures of victimization, energetic victimization, energetic perpetrator, and they clash and they kind of keep repeating over and over again. And when you heal, when you break out of that pattern, you assume responsibility and you give back what doesn't belong to you, and it breaks that cycle of the victim perpetrator happening over and over again. I'm like, why in our society do we still have this? I mean, I have an idea to say that maybe it's because of our generational wounds that come from slavery and the colonization of the country and doing all that stuff, not to say that that's good or bad, or up or down, or not without judgment, that we have an opportunity to heal those things. Right?

SPEAKER_05:

So you've mentioned a couple of times constellations, and for some people, they've never tuned into this podcast before. Do you want to give a little overview of what a constellation is?

SPEAKER_03:

So this is the Zula One podcast. All we talk about is family constellations and systemic constellations. Um, so specifically what a constellation is is when a group of people come together and get in a in a in a group, in a circle, very much like a Al Anon type of circle where people sit in an informal setting and you uncover with a facilitator like myself, like Alicia, like yourself, is a facilitator to bring up unresolved dynamics in a family system. And there's a phenomenological process that happens, and you're able to uncover those hidden dynamics and heal, right? Let them go, see it from a new perspective, and start a movement towards connection rather than division. Come to find out that division is the thing that separates us, that we other people and we can judge them and separate. And in reality, we're all one. We're all one connection through God, through grace, through this Holy Spirit, whatever you want to call it. You want to call it Mickey Mouse, like Michelle Bleckner says, you know, we all connected through this phenomenal logical process, right? So um that's what constellations are in a nutshell. It's a way to release burdens that don't belong to us.

SPEAKER_05:

Uh, for people who might think this sounds kind of woo-woo.

SPEAKER_02:

It is. Okay, it is like bingo. Yes, it is. Doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_05:

It doesn't make any sense. You wrote a wonderful substack um called I Found Christ in Constellations. Do you want to talk a little bit about what that explored?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh man. So that one's a that's a good question. So I, you know, for many years I was going through just kind of understanding where my religious and spiritual beliefs were, right? And and exploring I was saved as a Christian when I was 11 at summer camp. And um Spring Hill in Michigan. Spring Hill in Michigan, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, credit where credit is due. And, you know, through the years went through different iterations of exploring what that is, and including being agnostic, not believing in anything kind of situation. And what kept happening is that I kept coming back to this core belief that, you know, and and I and I say this that Christ has my heart and he's never let go. And it's humbling, it's profoundly humbling. It's it's and in life and in my my day-to-day job, and I get emotional when I talk about this, that like there's been these moments when he's like, I haven't let you go, kid. You know, it's like I haven't let you go. And so, uh, we get emotional. So through this healing process, what I found is that in biblical terms, that there's so many biblical terms that that connect, and so many ideas and concepts that connect to the process that happens in constellations. That, you know, Romans 12, too, that says, do not conform to the patterns of this world, but be renewed by the transforming of your mind. I mean, that is that is a constellation if you've ever heard one. And Cain and Abel having this victim perpetrator narrative that's cursing seven generations down, and that that, you know, just really seeing that through grace and through the profound assumption of responsibility is the only way that we can be saved. And the only way we can break out of this. And that's what that's what the story of Christ is, is this a radical responsibility. And I f I just cracked open and I was like, this is undeniable. I don't know, I don't care if you believe or you don't, but I know with every fiber of my body that that is the way, the truth, and the life, you know, and no one comes to the Father except through me. That's what that really means. It doesn't mean that it's like there's this judgy, omni, omnipotent kind of force doing things with a white beard. Like that, no, no, it's so much more profound. And and and it's it's the it's the base of reality, is what I what I feel it is, right? And I I don't I can't explain it. I don't know what it is, and I don't care. Like, I don't care if you believe me or not, which is you know, it's what I know that is true. So that's that's that piece is that and and and Bert Bert Hellinger, the the the man, the gentleman that started Family Constellations in his life, he was a Jesuit priest and and always said that Christ is always in the constellations. And that that idea of the meta, you know, this this this the great representative of that assumption of responsibility and what can happen when people truly assume responsibility. And assuming responsibility is nothing other than the ability to respond, right? That we're not frozen by our momentum, by our by our by our trauma, by the stuff that doesn't belong to us. If you look at original sin, it's nothing more than inherited trauma, right? Something that didn't belong to us that we're taking on, and that he, the the the great representative of all things, broke that chain through a uh uh the most unfair process ever known to man. So profound that it was that it broke time and two.

SPEAKER_07:

It broke time in two?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. It broke time in two. It literally stopped time and time started again because there's before Christ and after Christ.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Like it that's how in humanity, and then you know, you start seeing social systems that are built on this narrative of radical responsibility and service to the to the to the greater good that has created the most prosperous time ever known to man. And then you start seeing that that social systems that rely still on the victim perpetrator are tyrannical because the victim creates the perpetrator and the perpetrator creates the victim, and they're constantly going over and over and over again. It's like that's the that's undeniable. It's it's it's truer than true. You see like this narrative that you say, man, how can you deny this? It has warts and all. Nobody said it was going to be perfect, nobody said it was gonna be anything else, but man, this thing where you're in this weird way, it's a profound redemption of this idea of radical responsibility. Yeah, so that's how I got back to the long story short.

SPEAKER_05:

So you mentioned judgment, and it's kind of the cornerstone, um, one of the precepts of the constellation world. And a lot of people get confused.

SPEAKER_04:

What's the difference uh between judging people and not judging people and having an opinion? At least if you want to talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_07:

So when you judge someone, you're saying that you are better than they are. And when you give an opinion, you're just giving your own thought of a situation or an action or a feeling. Um, I think a lot of us tend to give our opinion, but then we're like, oh no, no, but I can do it better than this person, or I am better than this person because I would never do that. And that's I think that's one of the key elements of family cancellation. It's so easy to judge. We we tend to do it a lot, um, especially our parents, because we put them in this pedestal that they're perfect, um, and they're just human beings that are also healing and growing while we are growing with them.

SPEAKER_02:

So I think that's the definition of grace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Right? It's uh to say that you know, some people may support one regime or the other, or what, you know, my one way or the other is like to think that if we weren't in Germany during the 1930s, that we wouldn't be on the wrong side of history is ignorant. It's just to say like that, that's the to have grace is to say that I don't, I'm just doing the best that I can with what I have, right? That and uh and everybody is doing that, and to give people that idea or that space to say that is it's just having running with the world with kindness, right? Rather than being like, you are why are you to support blah blah blah blah. I don't know what happened in that person's life. We know in in constellations we've seen people go through horrific things, yeah. Horrific things, and there's a correlation between have gone through horrific things and being entangled with ideas, and ideas where you let the you know authority take on your responsibility, right? You're giving away your agency, and then suddenly you're on the wrong side of history.

SPEAKER_05:

So, so um interestingly, Bert Hellinger that John mentioned um was born in Germany and became he he actually was uh born during World War II. And um I think he actually fought in the war. I read some rendition of his history that said that he was born or that he fought during the war, and then joined the priesthood and went to um Africa and studied with the Zulu tribes and and saw the way that they treated members, outcast members of um their tribe, quit the priesthood, moved back to Germany, got married, started the Bert Hellinger Institute, um, which still exists today along the Austrian um German border. But he was he witnessed what what Germany was like under the Nazi regime, which is absolutely fascinating. And one of uh the quotes that always stuck with me that he said was Behind every act of evil is the statement, and I am better. Oh yeah, yeah, which is so profound behind in fact, I'll read it. All the evil in the world comes from one phrase, I am better. Yeah, and it's so hard, as Alicia said, it's so hard not to judge, but we have to remember that when we judge, what we reject, we attract, and what we judge, we become. And so to stop that cycle, how do we stop that pattern? What what what could we possibly do to stop that pattern so we're not judging anymore?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know. What could we potentially do to do so no uh um I think that you know what what the the question that you hit is is an important one. And that that question of of like who the great divider is. And the you know, in in the in the Bible you talk about that is Satan. Satan wants to divide, it's want us to be wants us to be anti-connection, because connection is connection to the divine, right? And so like I am better is a is a is a profound statement of division. It's like I am separating myself from you rather than saying what created you created me and will equally destroy both of us. I am no one to judge you. And so when you when we're talking, especially within the context of like such a such difficult conversations and dynamics that are happening, it's like I can't judge anybody. I can't judge, you know, the people that are in power. They're I don't, you know, you start seeing them, you see people for their inner child, the wounded inner child, and you start seeing those things, and you're like, man, I I just have compassion for you. And I don't have empathy. Empathy is I suffer, I suffer with you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Empathy is I suffer with you. So you're taking away their agency. Yeah, you're taking away, you're taking away their power. What's it's it's like the compassion is I understand your pain.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Man, that's a tough one because everybody wants to live in empathy. Everybody wants to be like, and that and that's the that's the danger of this thing. It's that that suicidal empathy is like I will suffer for you and I will take away your pain. We're nobody to do that either. We're nobody to judge, and we're nobody to take away anybody else's pain. Yeah. And that's the hard part. That's the that's the that's the part that we say, I know better, so I will take on your pain for you. It's like, no. No.

SPEAKER_07:

But that's what's so like I and you can have that like with your partner. Like you can be cooking a meal and then you ask them for help, and then they're not doing it the way you. Want it to do, and you're like, I know, I do, I'll I'll I'll just do it because I do it better. So it can be little day-to-day things as well, where you're judging them because they're not doing it the way you want them to do it. So that's why I encourage a lot of people, like when, because when you say family constellations, you're like, oh, I have to invite my mom, my grandma, my kids, like everybody. And I'm like, no, no, no, you can do it individually. But if you could do it with your significant other, it's so much like it's so much better because because you you see where they're coming from. You're seeing everything that they're carrying, and you see it from a part of compassion with no judgment. Like, oh, well, that's why they they react this way, or that's why they're triggered this way, because now I understand where they're coming from.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and and to respect people's choices too. Yeah, to be like, they may want to be like, no, that's the that's so hard. When you see somebody suffering and they're hitting their head against the wall and they keep doing it, they keep doing it.

SPEAKER_06:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you're like, oh no, I will say, and that's that our responsibility as facilitators is to be like, when you're ready, and they may never be. They may never be, that we can't take other people's pain away from them. And that's Alberto always said that. Alberto, our first, so for the audience, we have a facilitator that we first um were introduced to consolations with Alberto Iturbe.

SPEAKER_05:

20 years ago.

SPEAKER_03:

20 years ago, yes. 19, sorry. 19, yeah. Um, so you know he was saying we need to do this together, and that's the role as a facilitator. I can't put myself in a superior position than you or come here to save you. That's no, we're nobody to save anybody. We're just here to create the space, to do it, and that's it. To be on the other side of that river and be like, just take that path right there. That's it. It's not, we're not, it could be like, I'm Superman, and that's that ego, right? That's that taking away their agency, that's taking away their their power. Like uh we can't, you know, we can't do that. And so many people do that in relationships, they do that in politics, they do that in that's where like that's you know, some of the most prolific and some of the most difficult characters in history took away the people's power. He's like, I know better. Yeah, I know better than you. Oh man, that can create some horrific dynamics. And if you have the base catalyst of a population that's humiliated or has trauma from from being excluded or whatever, you know, whatever the story is, that's the grounds for horrific movements and social systems.

SPEAKER_05:

So another precept is um I'm nobody to judge you, and I'm also nobody to forgive you. Do you want to talk a little more about forgiveness, Alicia?

SPEAKER_07:

So that it's the same concept. Um when you when you forgive somebody, you're putting yourself above them, and they're also taking away their responsibility of their actions and giving it onto you. So when they do that, they take away everything as well, you're you're supposed to forgive me. Now, now the ball is on your side. And if you don't forgive me, that's on you. So it becomes their problem instead of you first understanding why they did they did what they did or they said or whatever it might be, and then to say like you don't because they say you could say like I'm sorry that you that you felt that way when you when you you're when when you are the one that's committing that um La Faya, I'm saying La Faye the infraction the infraction.

SPEAKER_04:

So I don't know, and before that comes the judgment, right?

SPEAKER_05:

Ah yeah, you're judging them for what they did. Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

It's a very difficult concept to what one of the and I was I was thinking about this this concept recently.

SPEAKER_03:

It's like saying I'm sorry is assuming a responsibility. Right? You can say I'm sorry for what I did, which is what you're really saying is like I'm I hurt you and I assume responsibility for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm sorry. You can say I'm sorry. But saying, Will you please forgive me puts the person in that other position and say, absolve me of my guilt. It's like no no no no no. You this guilt stays with you. And that's where the I'm sorry comes in, that you say, I'm sorry. I feel this, I'm sorry, I know that I hurt you, or I know that I misstepped, or I know that I could do better, or I know whatever that is. And you said, I I assume the responsibility. You say, I am sorry. But the other person to say, I forgive you, first you have to judge, then you have to absolve and say, I absolve you. I am the ultimate judge and juror of this. I absolve you of this, of this pain, of this guilt. No, you just simply say, All right, let's leave this where it is. That's okay. Let's move on. And you can say, I'll make sure it doesn't happen again. So I'll create some distance and I won't put myself in that position again, and I'll, you know, move around or do whatever I need to do. I have have some flexibility. If you're being nice, I'll get closer, and if you're not being nice, I'll move away. But then you can say the judgment comes from you wronged me, now I judge you, and now we're systemically frozen in this entanglement.

SPEAKER_05:

Um both of you have done constellations in um many different places in the United States and participated in constellations in different parts of the world, actually. Um one of the things that I hear sometimes when I'm trying to attract, not promote, um, and encourage people to join us in a workshop, a constellation workshop, is that, oh no, my problems are so big, I don't want to open up that can of worms. Or they're so embarrassed because they have all these deep family secrets. Um, do you have have you guys been shocked by anything that you've seen of all the many, many constellations you've participated in?

SPEAKER_03:

Um I think the shock comes from how common it is.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That everybody's got stuff.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Everybody's got stuff. Everybody, and did anybody say that they don't have a pile of dirty clothes and a pile of you know, garbage in their closet that everybody's got stuff. That's the reality. And what's what's the most impressive thing is when you somebody doesn't and they're at a constellation, you're like, oh, I don't have a lot of stuff. And you see it in the field, and you're like, they don't have a lot of stuff. And you're like, okay, you're I don't you don't need to be here, right? So that's the the the piece and how common it is for people to have just tons of stuff. Like the any if you go farther far enough back in my generations, there's incest, there's war, there's rape, there's there's genocide, there's uh, you know, exclusion, there's violence, there's murder. If you go back and back, you know, what is it, 12 generations is 4,094 people? That's 4,094 people. I don't know 4,094 people, but they all had to be in the right place at the right time for me to be here today. And they emigrated from countries and they were in conflict and they were in things, and we all come from and we all have these things in our generations, depending on how far you go back. We all have something, and and nobody's perfect, and the facilitator's by no means ever perfect. And and that's a thing that people do as well is like when they're when they're worried about constellations, like you're gonna judge it's literally the place of non-judgment. The only way that constellations work is what because we're not judging.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah. Because we've seen it all. We've like literally, and from 20 years that we've been seen participating, facilitating constellations, was it one person? Remember in Romania where Alberto was like, she did a he did a constellation on this older woman who her she was with her son. Um, he was blonde with blue eyes. I can't remember his his name. And Alberto's like, yeah, there's she sat in the chair and and there was nothing for her to work. Like out of all the thousands of people that we've seen constellation, she like there was nothing for her to work.

SPEAKER_03:

Hi, I'm John from the Zulu One Podcast. If you like what you're hearing and it resonates with you, please consider becoming a monthly supporter. The link is below. Thanks. And we've also seen people that are that are like misrepresenting, that are not being truthful. I've seen a some constellation, somebody's not being truthful, and you know it immediately. You're like this is this is not truthful.

SPEAKER_05:

So if somebody if they're tuning in for the first time to your podcast, that this representing might be a new turn. Do you want to explain what happens when you represent someone?

SPEAKER_07:

So basically, you are an open vessel. You're an open vessel, and you're a tool to let the other person see what is going on with that representation. So you're in a circle, and let's say John is doing a constellation on Rose, and John asks, you know, Rose, please pick somebody to represent your mother. So she goes around the room. Her obviously her mother's not there, so it's whoever she feels a connection with. It can be a male or female. She goes to that person, looks at the person in the eye and says, Will you please represent my mother, Rose? And then if a person says yes, because they can always say no if they don't feel comfortable, and that's totally okay, then they place them inside the circle, and then Rose sits back down and just sees what the representative or mother is doing.

SPEAKER_03:

And the And then is Rose real dramatic and has really big emotions during this process?

SPEAKER_07:

Is that yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03:

Is that like Rose would be like real vocal and just like get real involved in the constellation? Is that is that? And I like that.

SPEAKER_07:

I like those people that represent that are very I love it. Like I I really enjoy it. Doesn't bother me. I know for some facilitators it bothers, but for me, um I'm totally okay with that.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, so sometimes the feelings have to flow as they as they flow. So as they come out. Definitely. So it's important.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, that's a that's basically a representation. So you're not really thinking uh with your mind, you're just letting the energy move you. So sometimes you might want to sit down, you might want to um get up and move closer to somebody else. It's it's you're not acting, it's not, it's not um, do they call it like therapy acting?

SPEAKER_04:

Rules.

SPEAKER_07:

Yeah, cycle drama. Cycle drama. Uh you just let the energy move you. And when it's your first time representing, you and I do this, so does Eric Lopez, who's one of my mentors in shamanic family constellations. He does small constellations first in the beginning of the session. So people who have never done a constellation are like really feeling the energy, and they're like, oh, so this is what what it's all about. Because people get get scared when when they have to represent. And a lot of times, not everyone, but uh a good percentage of what you're representing, you might be healing for your own family system. So that's why you were picked.

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I I heard um the definition of a constellation one time is simply it's a modality to remove the blockages so that the flow of love can go up and down the way that it was intended. Yeah. Um Maruha Colmenares, uh dear aunt of yours, is the one who's perfect. So um the first time, it's it's really fun. Uh, Visa just facilitated a workshop um in Batavia, Illinois on Saturday, and we had two people who had co-facilitated who had never done a constellation before. And that's always really exciting for us because we know that they are about to see to witness grace really in person. And um, so for people who step into this world, how can you explain to people what those representatives are manifesting and why are they the best people to be doing it? What what stops me from just seeing a dynamic that I didn't see before?

SPEAKER_03:

Loyalty. So loyalty to a broken system. Loyalty is so there's a book by I've probably talked about this a million times on the on the podcast, but there's a book by Stephen Steffen Hausner called Even If It Cost Me My Life, that chronic disease and some some diseases are manifestations of the body dealing, trying to process through that unresolved trauma. And so if loyalty is so powerful that we will subconsciously, this is a subconscious loyalty, it's not a conscious loyalty. You don't say, like, oh, I am loyal to a child that was that that was never born in my family system, right? Somebody that was lost um from a miscarriage, right? That I'm gonna follow this per this child, this older sibling into the grave. So I am loyal, you know, I'm gonna develop a disease in order to do that, right? That's not how that works. It is subconscious, and we we're not aware of how powerful this loyalty is, but it is present. You know, um, we have a very particular case in our family system that's gonna say do you want to very and so I I wrote an article about um your sister, my my aunt, um, that developed cancer, and then in a very short period afterwards, her son, her middle son, that they were extraordinarily close to some people would say entangled, developed a different type of cancer and manifested in the same way and was gone in a very short period of time. And you see what what the the power of loyalty comes and at what costs. And it literally is if even if it costs me my life. And if some and to put things in context is like even if if uh if a 31-year-old Air Force Special Ops, you know, Air Force Academy super athlete will be that loyal to a to a to to pain in the system, then anything's kind of possible, right? People will commit atrocities against a people. People will like all those things are starting it becomes it's freeing in a way because you start seeing like loyalty as one of the strongest force on the planet. It's like loyalty to a broken system or broken uh or loyalty to a healed system. It's literally, I think it's what keeps our sus our social family systems together is this loyalty. It's not love, it's loyalty. And and and it even if it has pain, even it has has broken, you see people that are in relationships that are very painful, you see people that are in family systems that are very painful, that all they want to do is be loved. They all want that flow of love to happen. And even if it's the most painful thing in the world, they don't want to be left outside of the tribe. And being excluded from the tribe is is death, right? That's the worst that can happen, right? So I think we have some biological mechanisms to stay in the tribe and some systemic loyalty, phenomenological things to stay in the tribe. But loyalty, loyalty is when you start boiling down to things, it's it ends up being loyalty.

SPEAKER_05:

Um when I did my first constellation 19 years ago, I remember thinking that the people that were sitting in the circle were all actors and they knew my life story, and they have been prompted beforehand. And I I would like to hear what you guys think about this, but I I've always been of the since I was introduced to this world, I've always been of the belief that we are brought into this world. Number one, we're here to serve, we're here to serve others and to learn how to love, love ourselves first and then love others. And that we are programmed to attract into our lives those people in those situations that are going to teach us the lessons that we have to learn in order to move on and to heal and to move on into the next stage of our existence. So, and John, you like quantum physics, but this has been explained to me that that is the explanation for the magic and the grace that takes place in that circle, that we're constantly, that we're all connection because God is connection and we are connected, and we are all one community and all one being. So we're constantly putting out these signals to the world that I need to learn this lesson and those coincidences, which we like to call God incidences. You're thinking about somebody, and all of a sudden a person's around the corner, or you're wondering to yourself, I wonder how so-and-so is doing, and the phone rings, and it's so-and-so. Those, and I'm just getting chills, um, spiritual shudders, because the more you're open to that, the more that it happens. And so, my my understanding is what happens with those representatives is even before you step into that circle, when you agree that you're gonna go to the constellation, lots of things happen. Sometimes those loyalties will try to prevent you from getting into that circle, but you're in that circle, and the people who are there representing, if I'm doing my I'm having my constellation, Alicia is doing my constellation, those people that are there seated around me are, as Alicia said, just vessels. They they step out of their minds and into their souls, and they're just being used to transmit to me the information that I see, how they know, and I and I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07:

That's where the woo-ness comes in. And when you're trying to use a phenomenon, yeah, and when you're trying to explain to someone, it's so hard for them to grasp this understanding, and that's how you're like, just come. And then when they come, and even if they don't do their own constellation, like the girl from Saturday, where she didn't do her own, but she represented a lot and she saw, she was blown away. She was like, Oh my gosh, this helped me understand so much. And I think that's when you're like, Oh, this is what they're talking about. Like, this is fine. And and also an important thing to make clear is finding a good facilitator. It's like having a therapist, a dancer, a teacher. There might be some people that are amazing, and there's some there's gonna be some people that are not that amazing. So I think finding the right facilitator is very, very important.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, that that brings up such a good point, mom. The we engage in things all day, every day, that we don't understand. How are we communicating between Chicago and South Florida live, right? That's being recorded, that's in a cloud. Like we don't know how the magic happens. Does anybody that's a that's not a programmer or doesn't know networking and doesn't know cloud computing know how any of this stuff works? How I'm speaking into this cylindrical tube that's gonna go into some wires that we're live transmitting to Chicago, and you're speaking in Florida, and we have a producer that's gonna edit this and put it on a cloud and put it on YouTube, and then suddenly you type some keys, and all the information from the universe pops up on this little box in front of you. That's magic, right? If you showed that to a person 150 years ago, they would say you were a demon or you're a ghost or something. There's just some things that we don't have the tech, the understanding, universal understanding of how things work. And there's a phenomenological part to this that you're like, I don't know why it works. There's some people that have some theories that sound pretty good. There's some people that have some spiritual beliefs that sound pretty good. I'm particularly a little bit of both. But to say that this is a gift, and I don't, I don't know how the internet works, I don't know how modern medicine works, but they can save people and heal people, and you can communicate with the whole entire planet as much as you want, and you can put all you can literally turn on your camera and trauma dump all of your stuff into the world wide web and it's magic, right? For all intents and purposes is magic. So it's like I don't some some people are like, I don't understand how it works. And so I think that's just that the blockage or the judgment or that loyalty that's preventing them from working because it we if we're willing to be astonished or we're coming from a place of wonder, place of curiosity, and I'm very blessed that I have the curse of curiosity.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_03:

And to say that, like when you you were saying that the con my first consolation, my first consolation was like, What are they doing? You know, I thought it was I thought it was neurolinguistic programming. I thought it was like the guys that make uh I've said this a couple times, that uh the people that make people quack. You know, the hypnotist?

SPEAKER_01:

Ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You go to the thing and you raise your hand and they hypnotize you, and then you're on stage and you're quacking like a duck and then you're act talking like an alien or whatever. I thought it was something like that. And that that the facilitator had everybody had filled out, you know, you see like those um charismatic evangelists that it's all a scam, that they're scouring your MySpace back in the day was MySpace and your Facebook or whatever, and they'd be like, somebody that has a sister that has cancer, and then you'd be like, Me, and then they knew that that was the case. That's what I thought consolations was. I thought it was a scam, I thought it was a cult, I thought it was the weirdest thing that could ever come. But here I am all these years later, as I'm going on 17 years, that it's this phenomenological process that creates profound alignment and profound healing, and I can attribute incredible things in my life. And the secret is you don't have to have a subscription, you don't have to burn an owl effigy in the woods in Northern California, you don't have to run around naked, you can do one and never do it again, and who cares? Nobody cares, nobody's gonna do the thing, like and do a constellation once and never do it again, and every and there's no multi-level marketing, there's not a society, there's not a group, there's not a uh a monthly payment, there's nothing. There's this incredible gift that you can go find it, do it once, have an incredible impact in your life, and then never see the person again. And that's like I think that's partly why people are so suspicious of it. Yeah, because everything is a multi-load, it's cut coat knives or you know, whatever the you know, herbalife thing is that you could be like, oh, this only works if you bring in five people to do it. It's like, no, we don't, I don't care if you come or not. It's that's not my problem. It's I do this stuff, I do it out of a profound calling of a profound calling from you know a higher power to say this is what you're supposed to do. And that's it.

SPEAKER_07:

And what's what's so interesting and so heart opening is that this is soul work, it's work that go it's from your soul. So you don't think with your mind, you you're just opening your soul to see what is revealed. And uh and what's really interesting because we talk a lot about where we learned this about constellations, and when we started in Romania, we were with 50 psychologists and we didn't know anyone. And you always see in the beginning of a constellation like group workshop, everybody's like, okay, yeah, you know, and you're like, tell me a feeling that you have, and everybody's like nervous, you know.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, and you know, like they it's always a negative feeling, and then at the end, everybody, you know, after six hours, and everybody's like hugging each other, everybody loves everyone. Like it's just such a beautiful experience. I mean it's so work.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, if you could take a picture of people's energies at the beginning of a constellation and at the end of the constellation, it's like they're different people. They come in, they're closed, their their face is like stern, their body literally like arms crossed, like you said, negative energies doing this stuff. And at the end, it's like, I don't care where I see you in the future, but you are my soul sibling in some way. And I I love you exactly. Like, I have such profound and divine love for you that I just want to see you happy, and you're like, bye. You know, and you somebody in the world has a like beautiful space in their heart for you. And it's like the most, it's the most profound. And so, okay, I'm gonna try to do this without crying. But, mom, you're reading Dan Booth Cohen's book. So God. Um I Carry You in My Heart, Family Constellations in Prison. And this book changed my life because um the power of redemption and returning dignity to the perpetrator and the victim. Tell me a little bit about, without spoiling the book, right? Um, I don't think it's one of those spoiler books. It's like at the end everybody's dead, right? Like uh, like everybody was in purgatory, like lost. But tell me a little bit about how you've been navigating through this book and the some things that you've learned.

SPEAKER_05:

So I've been um reading it very, very slowly, and you keep calling me and saying, Have you finished it? Have you finished it? Um because I'm savoring it and I'm underlining and I'm trying to really absorb the messages that that he shares there. And so he worked in a prison in California and was really amongst the the worst of the worst. And to to hear the stories of how these people were able to embrace what they had done and assume responsibility for what they had done is is and to allow the the, as you said, to restore the theirs, to have their dignity restored is just it's absolutely beautiful. And I think you shared, John, that you were reading it on a plane and started soft.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it was embarrassing. I was profoundly embarrassed on that flight. Miranda and I, my wife and I were on a flight, and we were flying to Chicago, to Chicago. Oh, we were going to Chicago, and I'm reading this book. Good thing I was on a window and like not on the aisle, and I'm ugly crying as I'm reading. You'll see the story. You're you're close, mom. So don't get on a flight and read it.

SPEAKER_04:

Spoiler.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you're close, you're close. So that's the part that I want to listen to because it's just it's like it's divine. I don't know. I, you know, and I say this and it sounds so corny and cheesy as I say it, but it's like the the the the depth, the depth of grace, and like when you and the and and these guys are like in the in the belly of this prison, and they say it's the most sacred place that they've ever been, right? And even the physical people that are that weren't in in that that had never done constellations before, and they weren't in prison, they were coming in as volunteers to to do these constellations in prison, we're like, we were that whole that same feeling. It's like that same feeling of when you come in and everybody's like, well, like have a bad, have a bad face and you know, kind of like blocked energy. And then afterwards, like, I love you. I like how how can you create a uh a connection with a with another soul that has done something, right? That it that you just have immense grace for is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. It's I don't know how it's it's just it's overwhelming, you know.

SPEAKER_07:

How many years did he work in the hospital?

SPEAKER_03:

Five years. That was five years. Yeah, and and that prison closed. And so when when Dan Dan and I were doing the the podcast, it's like you know, that was like you go in and you do these constellations in this prison, and then the prison closes. It's like it's like it healed. It's like the it the people went to different places and in some way it had an inoculation to the system, or what I don't I'm not sure what that is, but uh for whatever reason, the place the place where judgment of the place that is based on judgment. The place that the infrastructure literally is judgment through this profound work dissolved.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh my like how What an incredible story and and and narrative that that that and that's like like that's the story of Christ, like the the the the thief, and you know, he's like, you will join me in the kingdom of heaven. It's like even the worst are redeemable. You know, it's like and we have this this idea in our in our society that there's people that we throw away. And and like how how can we throw people away? How can we other, you know, it's like say there's others, and and that's from people that we disagree with, people that we have conflict with, people that we have, you know, that that I can in my heart have grace for people. Like that is just it's just the the the weight of the responsibility of that changes everything.

SPEAKER_05:

Dan Booth Collins says, I carry your heart in my heart. Yeah, and you've got a great podcast, so I would recommend to anybody who's interested in this to listen to it. And uh we talked a lot about sort of the the spiritual and the soul work and soul surgery that takes place during constellations. But um for people who are interested in sort of the scientific side, uh, would you recommend Mark Wollen's book, It didn't start with you, that explains epigenetics. And there's there's a lot of data, empirical data that explains constellations.

SPEAKER_07:

And he also has a couple of activities or work that you can do on your own in the back of the book, so you can start exploring that as well with them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and and you know, one of the good things I I really like about Dan's book is that's well researched, and he he mentions Yehuda and Kellerman's study of intergenerational transmission of trauma in like 2019 or 2015, I can't remember which year, but you see like of Holocaust survivors, and then you see, you know, there's there's this phenomenon of intergenerational trauma. And so like now science is just kind of getting the idea of there is a transmission that is non-local, right? And that is not necessarily biological that happens between systems. And we're at the precipice of understanding this phenomenon, which I think AI and everything that's happening in in AI is going to reveal that there's a huge piece that cannot be explained by modern science. You know, when they talk about the universe, like the universe is filled made up of dark energy, like dark matter or something like that. It's like dark matter, there's this dark matter that holds all things together. It's like, well, what's that? You know, just saying you know, it's like, oh, it's just this thing that we don't know. There's a bunch of it, but we don't know it. And I think what when we understand these AI systems and they really process through our social structures and our things, like there's a there's a phenomenon that has a math to it, that has this probabilistic physics to it, that that has that connects all systems. That's the that's the part that I'm really excited about. Everybody's like super dystopian about what's gonna happen with AI, but I'm like, I'm I'm I'm really interested in what this looks like, as long as we continue to heal. Yeah. Because we are the AI's consciousness.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03:

And if the AI has all of our wounds and our collective trauma and has all of our bull crap and has all of our exclusions and all of our our all of our stuff, we're we're doomed. It is gonna be Terminator, right? But if it has our healing capabilities and it has like we're on the other side of the threshold, that we have at least given it the systems of alignment and the systems of honor, the systems of of of lineage, the systems of connection, the systems of resolution, the systems of returning dignity, then we have a chance.

SPEAKER_05:

So for people who like to watch Netflix series, they're not readers. Are there any resources out there that they could check out?

SPEAKER_07:

There's a show, a Turkish show called Another Self, and it has two uh seasons where it's three sit three friends that explore family constellations. Uh, and it gives you a really good idea of what it's all about. And they explain, especially on season two, like the principles of family constellation, and you're able to see um what that dynamic is or what those workshops look like. So I would definitely recommend that that show to anyone.

SPEAKER_04:

And can you tell about the facilitator of that story?

SPEAKER_07:

Well, no, Eric doesn't like to brag. Um, but it's Lopez, who is a world-renowned family shamanic family constellation practitioner. He's a dear friend to all of us.

SPEAKER_03:

Where is he right now?

SPEAKER_07:

He's in my mom's house. He's in mom's house. Uh, he just arrived yesterday uh to Chicago because uh he is gonna be facilitating a workshop on Saturday because I organize workshops for him as well, once or twice a year here in Chicago. Uh so the director of the show actually went to one of his workshops in Turkey because he is very, very popular in Turkey. He goes um between three to four four months a year, and he um I would say formed the per the character of the facilitator on the show based off of Eric's Eric's uh facilitation. So um yeah, it's really cool. But Eric doesn't like to brag. So but you can see like the way he puts his hands and the way he dresses. I'm like, oh my gosh, Eric does that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So you're organizing workshops in Chicago, Batavia, what else in Michigan? The retreat is coming up in Chicago.

SPEAKER_07:

A retreat is coming up. Um if you want to find out our next workshops, you can just go to our website, zulu1.org, click on workshops, and you'll see different workshops happening in Chicago, in Batavia, in the suburbs, as well as Michigan. And for you, Johnny, in Miami, where else are you doing constellations?

SPEAKER_00:

In Miami.

SPEAKER_07:

Miami.

SPEAKER_00:

In Miami. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07:

But we've done constellations, you know, in Arizona. Uh, we're open to traveling. If you are interested in us facilitating the three of us together, or John or my mother, or myself, um, we are open because this is a very, very dear cause to our heart, and it's something that has really changed us and healed us in a very, very profound way. So we are very excited to be invited anywhere that anybody wants us to come.

SPEAKER_03:

So if somebody would like to get a hold of you, how would they do that?

SPEAKER_07:

Through our website. Uh, we're listed there. They can just write us an email, um, aacosta at zulu1.org, or they can go to our Instagram account, Zulu One Podcast, um X account, Facebook, yeah, all social media.

SPEAKER_05:

You find it all at the website, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. Everything's on the website.

SPEAKER_05:

So any final words from you, John?

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you for being my mom and introducing this work.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, thank you. Oh, you're gonna make me cry.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, there we go. There we go. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_06:

I'm gonna carry your heart and my heart.

SPEAKER_03:

I carry your heart and my heart. And thank you for being my mother and and really connecting us into this incredible modality.

SPEAKER_05:

So I'm just so very proud that both of you have embraced this kind of healing um in the way that you have and that your father has too. Because, you know, it we're you guys are stronger if he and I are stronger. And we I I didn't think I would see the day that he would be one of Family Constellation's biggest fans. But it truly is.

SPEAKER_02:

It truly is.

SPEAKER_05:

It's a beautiful thing. So for anybody out there that that doubts, you know, that this can happen, it can. Anything is possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you, guys. Love you.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you. Love you. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_03:

Thanks for tuning in to the Zula One Podcast. If you found value in today's podcast, please don't forget to like, share, and subscribe. Your support means everything to us. And thank you for being part of this journey.

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John Acosta

Host